NPC Price Modifiers

[tymora]

I have just noticed that some items are +2% and some are +2.5% in regular cities as compared to Jeuno prices. (Max Fame in all cities considered only)

For example: Cursed togi, Hara-ate(6000->6150) and Ice bead(3987 -> 4086) are +2.5% while Ice staff (7250 -> 7395), silent oil(200->204) and echo drops (300 -> 306) are +2%.

Typically the math follows that: City Price = Floor( (1.02|1.025) x Jeuno Price )

I am curious to know what is the criteria that sets one item from another.

I think it is unlikely that each item will have its own modifier:
1. I tried numerous items and noticed only 2 distinct modifiers, +2% and +2.5%.
2. It takes up needless server space if there are only 2 modifiers and you have to store an instance with every item.

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Anyone with any insight to this?

[Tubbers]

Maybe it has to do with item type? Usable equipment/medicine/etc. vs. unusable? Are there any patterns so far or is it mostly random?

[Lahina]

Well, so far the only thing the two groups have in common that I can see is - the 2.5% group comes from RotZ, and the 2% group is all base FFXI content. Try more RotZ and base items, and maybe add some Wings and CoP items and see if they behave in either group (I would, but off to class in ~10 minutes.)

Wonder where Dynamis drops fall in, if this really is the schema?

[tymora]

Bronze Zaghnal is 2%. (86->87).

So far, the pattern is not:
1. Recipe ingredients vs Non-Recipe
2. By City - Prices vary in the same city on different items
3. By Guild - Prices vary for similar guild-related items and different guilds can share the same %.
4. Usable/Unusable items - Ice staff is unusable but is in the 2% category.

---
The RoTZ versus Original FF will need some testing.

[Delenn]

I have hundreds of npc item sale records resulting in:

Notes

• Uses max fame in all areas

Analysis

• Seems A: Al Zahbi == Bastok [S] == Tavnazian Safehold == Whitegate
• Seems B: Bastok == Windurst == Valkurm Dunes
• Seems C: Jeuno - Neptune's Spire - Ghebi Damomohe
• Seems B pays floor( 1.02*A )
• Seems C pays floor( 1.025*A )

Hope that's helpful/interesting,

[Delenn]

To be clear, Jeuno has two NPC rates, the Tenshodo rate and Jeuno itself.

[tymora]

To be clear, Jeuno has two NPC rates, the Tenshodo rate and Jeuno itself.

Tenshodo rates is equivalent to a city's. You can sell an item in Bastok and Tenshodo(Norg) and will get the same price if your fame are at the same level in both cities.

According to your post, you indicate a "By city" rates, but "Hara-ate" sells at +2.5% in Bastok and Windurst.

Also, you can include Jeuno in your group A and San D'Oria + Norg in group B. Neptune's Spire follows Tenshodo fame level and is equivalent to city prices.

[Delenn]

You're probably correct on the relations. I haven't updated my npc data thread in a long time and only updated the relationships for areas where I recorded a lot of different items sold in all places.

I wrote a quick tiny perl script to parse recorded items sold both in bastok and Neptune's Spire Jeuno and noticed that they all used the 1.025 multiplier.

npc.pl
      Danceshroom | b(  652) j(  656) 1.0(  640) ej(  656) - x1.025
       Dragon Cap | b( 7803) j( 7841) 1.0( 7650) ej( 7841) - x1.025
        Eye Drops | b(  529) j(  531) 1.0(  519) ej(  531) - x1.025
    G. Bird Plume | b(  538) j(  541) 1.0(  528) ej(  541) - x1.025
 Hippogryph Fthr. | b( 1428) j( 1435) 1.0( 1400) ej( 1435) - x1.025
       Holy Water | b(  357) j(  358) 1.0(  350) ej(  358) - x1.025
      Int. Potion | b(  856) j(  861) 1.0(  840) ej(  861) - x1.025
         Mistmelt | b( 2040) j( 2050) 1.0( 2000) ej( 2050) - x1.025
  Platoon Zaghnal | b( 1122) j( 1127) 1.0( 1100) ej( 1127) - x1.025
    Scorpion Claw | b(  278) j(  279) 1.0(  273) ej(  279) - x1.025
      Silk Thread | b(  207) j(  208) 1.0(  203) ej(  208) - x1.025
      Sleepshroom | b(   25) j(   25) 1.0(   25) ej(   25) - x1.025
  Sparkling Stone | b( 2703) j( 2716) 1.0( 2650) ej( 2716) - x1.025
      Wool Thread | b(  612) j(  615) 1.0(  600) ej(  615) - x1.025
      Woozyshroom | b(  245) j(  247) 1.0(  241) ej(  247) - x1.025

I agree that it's very odd that Hara-ate doesn't follow the trend.

Note: reformatted the output to fit in the code block.

The columns left-to-right are:
item name
bastok npc sale price
nepture's spire (jeuno) npc sale price
base cost (ceil(bastok/1.02))
estimated jeuno cost (floor(base*1.025),
jeuno's base multiplier

[tymora]

Interesting. You have any more of these values? I am collecting them actually.

If you are interested, I am placing what I have into a database online:
FFXI Item Viewer by Tymora@Pandemonium

[tymora]

Cute. I never noticed that Jeuno NPC prices doesn't vary with fame.
I had a friend check on his mule (with absolutely 0 fame) and got the same prices as me (max fame).

I can't verify Neptune's spire prices because I am not max fame in Tenshodo.

For city prices, it appears at 0 fame, you receive a 3.9% penalty using Jeuno prices as a base. Strange %. I am tempted to put it at 4%.

Jupiter staff at 0 fame = 7675 (Spire), Jeuno Price = 7975

7675 = Floor(7975/1.039)

[tymora]

After digging around a bit, I uncovered the following:

1. There is a Tenshodo -1 Fame. (0 fame = Absolutely no quests done in any city) This results in a -5.25% penalty in NPC prices (compared to Jeuno). At 0 fame, the penalty is -3.75%. To get this -1 fame, simply raise Jeuno fame without raising Norg fame.

2. Jeuno NPC prices does not vary with fame. Ideal for use as the base.

3. Tenshodo (Neptune's Spire) gives a 2.5% bonus (as compared to Jeuno) at max Norg fame. Compare this to 2% on the same items in all cities. (So I did make a mistake here.)
a) There is a catch. Some items DO sell for 2.5% bonus at max fame in cities. Hara-ate and Ice bead are 2 of them. These items are capped at 2.5% bonus at Neptune's Spire as well.

4. For regular cities, the 0 fame penalty is -3%. The sales bonus for Hara-ate and Ice bead do not apply here. They are also at -3%. Max fame bonus is 2% (for most items).

------Summary-------------
There is what is commonly thought to be 10 levels of fame. Following this train of thought, each level will increase your NPC buyback price in regular cities by about 0.5%, starting at -3% at 0 fame, up to +2% at 10 fame. (Whether it is linear or not is another question though.)

Using the regular Wiki as a reference, Norg fame does have 10 levels (Newbies start at level 1 instead of 0). Penalty goes from -5.25% to -3.75% from 0 to 1 fame and then goes on to +2.5% at max fame. This is a range of 6.25% and is about 0.7% per fame level after 1 if it is linear.

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So how to find out if an item is considered a special item?
Simple, get max fame in a newbie city and Norg, then compare the NPC buy-back price. It is special if they are the same.

For reference, Hara-ate sells for 6150 (6150 also at regular cities) at Spire at max fame. HQ staves go for 8174 (8134 regular city).

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Fun little trivia for people who likes this kind of stuff. Also good for people like me who likes to be able to calculate crafting/NPC losses/profits down to the single gil.

Have fun with it. Please kindly give credit to me if you decide to put it up on any of the FFXI Wiki.

[tymora]

The final piece of the puzzle is solved.

Raw Materials (Harvested, mined, NPC purchased, mob dropped) Max Fame City Bonus = +2%
Processed Ingredients (Ice Beads, Lumber, Upgradeable equips) Bonus = +2.5%
Final Products (Meds, Non-upgradeable equip, Cursed items) Bonus = +2%

[tymora]

The final piece of the puzzle is solved.

Raw Materials (Harvested, mined, NPC purchased, mob dropped) Max Fame City Bonus = +2%
Processed Ingredients (Ice Beads, Lumber, Upgradeable equips) Bonus = +2.5%
Final Products (Meds, Non-upgradeable equip, Cursed items) Bonus = +2%

The quoted final piece is wrong!. My no SJ, level 1 mule gets the 2.5% bonuses on ALL items, but my main character gets only 2% in all cities on all items.
1. Conquest ranking doesn't matter - Checked on same game day in all cities.
2. Job level doesn't matter - Changed jobs to a level 1 and it is the same at my lvl 75 on my main character.
-> Presence of SJ??? My lvl 15, 74 day playtime mule share the same bonuses as my 10 day, lvl 1 mule.

This means when I try to NPC a Hara-ate to the same NPC in Bastok with all factors kept constant, my mule gets 6150 for it, my main gets 6120.
I had thought Platinum Ore was 2% bonus but I made a mistake in calculating the cost. I had gotten mixed and confusing results because I had been trying to sell and record prices on both my main and my mules!

So here is the real final piece of the puzzle:
1. All items receive the same penalties and bonuses.
2. If your character is un-progressed (I will assume it to be the completion of the SJ quest or at least 1 job 18+ to be the criteria here unless proven otherwise), you get +0.5% bonus in non-Jeuno-Price cities. (-3% to 2.5% instead of -3% to 2%)
3. Tenshodo adds a +0.5% bonus if you have positive fame in Norg and this does not stack with the bonus from being a "newbie". This Tenshodo bonus applies to all characters -> Which explains why most people think Tenshodo is best for NPCing stuff.

[Wheeldog]

Want another fun bit to add in??? I'm not sure with the current price point but remedies used to NPC for 3000 to normal jeuno NPC but 3200 to the medicine shop in upper on a lvl 1 mule with no fame that I know of at all, but quite a bit of playtime. So what shop vs item can play SOME part for certain items.

[tymora]

If you meant the hospital vendor, there is no difference between that and normal Jeuno NPCs. tried Echo Drops, Republic aketon, ice bead and ice ore.

But if that is a guild shop (shops that only buy back a select number of items), then they will pay up to 1.5x the price of Jeuno. Judging how profitable Remedies were back then, I am not surprised if tons were sold to it all the time, depressing the guild prices. 3200 would sound about right then. (+1/15 bonus)

They could have changed it in one of the patches from a "Guild-type" vendor to a "Buy-all-type" normal vendor.

[Wheeldog]

Try a remedy. I know for a fact that I sold them there vs any other NPC in jeuno because I got 3200 vs 3000 back before they hosed them. I'm not sure now but I don't think they would of changed the formula vs just the base sell price on them.

[Ivana]

btw, does anybody know why a max fame city mule pays 10 gil for a distilled water but my main pays 11 gil? Also has anybody ever bought distilled water for 9 gil from NPC? Wiki claims that is the low point.

[Araelus]

This is very interesting - is there a random variable somewhere we can't see, similar to the Chocobo racing algorithm fix?

[Gergall]

If two players have the same fame rank, but one of them is very close to ranking up and the other player is not close at all, do they pay the same prices?

[tymora]

btw, does anybody know why a max fame city mule pays 10 gil for a distilled water but my main pays 11 gil? Also has anybody ever bought distilled water for 9 gil from NPC? Wiki claims that is the low point.

Probably the same "newbie" character bonus they give. I haven't looked into "purchases" yet.