ideas on how to improve DNC for endgame

[Dymlos]

First off, let me get this out of the way, I posted this thread in Alla's feedback forum in hopes SE will read it on how to improve DNC. (But knowing how they are w/listening to the community, that's pretty much a waste of time.)

So, while this is not everything from the list, here are some ideas from the thread on how DNC can be improved. While these are just ideas, please do not start flaming me and treating me like I'm Birdhair. I'm actually reluctant in posting these ideas out of fear of 'elitist insults'

Increase Haste Samba or all Samba effects duration to 3 minutes to reflect Haste spell.
Make Waltzes recast separate or have their own waltz tiers.
Allow Waltzes to cure alliance members.
Add Tier 2 and Tier 3 Divine Waltzes due to Divine Waltz is useless at higher levels.
Give Dancer a Conserve TP Job trait to help reduce TP cost for abilities.
Give Dancer a native Store TP trait to help with TP per hit.
Add Resist Amnesia Job Trait.
Add a charge system similar to Quickdraw/Stratagems for Waltzes
Add a Dispel Flourish.
Obtain a 'Clear Mind' effect for TP while resting to recover TP. (when weakened and need to keep curing people.)
Increase step potency by 10% first level; 5% additional level. (not sure what it is right now since people keep editing the wiki.)

If you wish to see the full list here's the URL: http://tinyurl.com/ndq2va

[ronin sparthos]

You pretty much covered most of the problems.

Waltz needs to be split up into something like:

Waltz I - C1/2
Waltz II - C3/4
Waltz III - Divine1/2/3 or Healing

There is no reason for all of them to share the same category as no other healing job gets locked out of their other cures when they use one. The TP cost should be the only limiting factor along with whatever enmity you happen to draw.

[Ultimagi]

Make Waltzes recast separate or have their own waltz tiers.
Add a charge system similar to Quickdraw/Stratagems for Waltzes

No other dances use charges, so it wouldn't make sense to use them for waltzes.
Also I don't agree with separating waltzes either, they should just reduce the recast times.

Give Dancer a native Store TP trait to help with TP per hit.

Samurai is Square-Enix's baby, and it doesn't want to share!

Obtain a 'Clear Mind' effect for TP while resting to recover TP. (when weakened and need to keep curing people.)

Too broken.

The rest looks good though.

[Gergall]

There is no reason for all of them to share the same category as no other healing job gets locked out of their other cures when they use one.

SMN does.

I still agree though.

[Spider-Dan]

Auto-Regain (1/tick) acquired at LV40
Waltzes can target alliance
Haste Samba base is 10%, meritable to 15%

I also agree with splitting Divine/Healing recast from Curing recast, and adding two more tiers to Divine.

[Tomiko]

Make Waltzes recast separate or have their own waltz tiers.
Allow Waltzes to cure alliance members.
Add Tier 2 and Tier 3 Divine Waltzes due to Divine Waltz is useless at higher levels.

These would be the main ones I would like to see. The Store TP stuff isn't really needed since we can get TP so easy with Reverse Flourish as long as we're engaged.

Waltzes - SE intended Dnc to be a frontline healer iirc and the Waltz limitations really hurt that. It's bad enough that I have to spend 65tp for CW4, but is the 17s recast really needed? If I spam it I'm obviously going to run out of TP and be unable to cure.

Add Resist Amnesia Job Trait.
Add a Dispel Flourish.

These would be nice to have, but wouldn't really help with Endgame as you asked.

Note: I consider "endgame" events like HNMS/Dynamis/Einherjar/Etc and not meriting

Resist Amnesia - Considering the job is based around job abilities this should have been a given. Wtf do I need Resist Slow for when I can Healing Waltz it away? (Note: I had to look it up cause I couldn't remember what useless trait we did get.)

This would really only help with Salvage and Einherjar in regards to endgame since there's not really much that uses Amnesia. Would still be nice to have for those situations though.

Dispel Flourish - This would be nicer for lower levels than it would be endgame. Most of the stuff in endgame tends to die fast and the stuff that doesn't usually doesn't spam buffs to the point where Rdms and Brds can't keep up with it. But at lower levels it would help for the exp mobs that require Dispel (Crabs, Beetles, Crawlers, etc).

[Pergatory]

They all seem like viable ideas to me (read: not overpowering depending on implementation, but still helpful). That being said, I wouldn't get your hopes up on much being done to address this issue. The thing is, I don't think DNC was ever meant to be an endgame healer, at least not on large & powerful enemies. The whole idea of feeding the mob TP in order to heal your party is counter-productive in a lot of endgame fights. No job changes will likely ever change this. DNC has some really great uses, and making them more viable in places like Dynamis, Limbus, Einherjar, etc... you might have some luck there. Just don't get any illusions about becoming a viable replacement for WHM/RDM/SCH as main healer in the bigger fights as I doubt that'll ever happen. I don't think that was SE's vision for the job.

Auto-Regain (1/tick)

I do like this idea though! No job in the game currently has auto regain. It'd be sweet to finally see it obtainable by players, even if it's only available at 40+ for DNC mains.

[Vyvian]

Haste Samba gives benefit to everyone, regardless of party position, I think would do wonders.

[ronin sparthos]

Still dont get why Dancer lacks a Raise dance and Pro/Shell.

Two Raise dances and a Pro/Shell equivalent that scales with levels would be a nice addition.

[Spider-Dan]

Raise should be a jig with 60s recast and reraise effect when self-targeted. R1 is fine; the main issue is total-lack-of-raise on a healer job.

[Shamaya]

I've got no problem with the steps, but maybe make some of them more powerful. How about a box step at base 8% def down instead of 5%? Of course this wouldn't solve the overall problem but maybe small adjustments like these on top of the rest would be cool.

[Ultimagi]

Give Dancer some Staff Skill so they can pole dance!
Also this would make Dancer/Samurai incredibly broken as a tank.

[Isiolia]

Perhaps instead of making additional Divine Waltz tiers, a Flourish that would make the next Waltz AoE, perhaps for higher TP cost - would also serve to make the Healing Waltz recast less painful if you have an entire party of status to remove.

Could also be a use for a "charge" system as was mentioned.

Frankly, should just make Waltzes targetable to anyone, in party/alliance or not. It's not like they wouldn't still cost TP.


Some additional form of regain or TP generation besides No Foot Rise and /SAM would be helpful. If not engaging, those things alone don't allow for much. In very fast fights, getting much TP can be difficult as well.

[Gergall]

Raise should be a jig with 60s recast and reraise effect when self-targeted. R1 is fine; the main issue is total-lack-of-raise on a healer job.

Sorry to derail slightly but this is Final Fantasy, we should also have Phoenix Down items that anyone can use for a 1-time (consumable) casting of raise.

[Antithesis]

Give Dancer an ability at Level 70. 3:00 recast, 2:00 duration. The ability completely negates any TP the enemy can gain from the Dancer via the Dancer's melee attacks.

That, in my opinion, would be a phenomenal upgrade to Dancer. No one likes feeding TP to mobs, especially high-end monsters. Also, they need to upgrade Dancers debuffing abilities. I can assure you a Magic Defense Reduction step would be very wanted.

[takethistoyourgrave]

I agree with almost all of the ideas posted in this thread. Regardless of what they do, I hope they at least do SOMETHING for DNC and soon; as it stands, it is a job with so much potential utility and it's major downfalls have just been unacknowledged by SE for some time now.

TP regain as a job trait would be awesome and not game-shattering.

[Talint]

Holy fuck that Allakhazam thread is fucking awful.

DNC won't get Auto Regain in its current form, as No Foot Rise+Reverse Flourish = 60TP, which is the same as /SAM. Meditate /SAM is 60TP for three minutes, or 1TP/tic (a presumed auto regain trait effect). If DNC had more abilities to work its TP with, Auto Regain would be a much better possibility.

The inability to be decent support or do damage is why DNC doesn't get endgame time.

To wit:

Low DMG weapon + inherent low combat skill on main weapon = plink plink damage. You have to sacrifice haste options to get a decent attack stat, which will slow TP return.

Steps stack with other kinds of enfeebles, so they can't be buffed unless you're looking at game breaking combinations. This is also why Haste Samba is also only 5/10% - it stacks with other haste options.

As has been mentioned, every single cure plus erase locked onto a single timer on top of egregiously long recasts makes support where parties are getting smacked around with AoE and enfeeblegas impossible.

You want to improve DNC endgame? Just make them do more. There's a lot of potential for DNC that is being completely unharnessed since they're the only job that uses TP for more than just weaponskilling; and it doesn't have to be game breaking to make it more supporty.

Dispel Flourish, Raise/Reraise Jig, more Divine Samba tiers, are all good (and I'd say necessary) ideas, but even I'm starting to doubt we'll ever see support buffs like this. Squenix seems to be hellbent on keeping them as "meleeing healers!", so DNC is more likely to see a melee buff instead of a support buff; which I'm pretty sure won't get them to partake in endgame stuff anymore than THF does - which does that whole "meleeing with daggers and dealing damage" thing a lot better.

[Dymlos]

Dispel Flourish - This would be nicer for lower levels than it would be endgame. Most of the stuff in endgame tends to die fast and the stuff that doesn't usually doesn't spam buffs to the point where Rdms and Brds can't keep up with it. But at lower levels it would help for the exp mobs that require Dispel (Crabs, Beetles, Crawlers, etc).

Don't forget soloing mobs as well! :D

[laverna]

First off, let me get this out of the way, I posted this thread in Alla's feedback forum in hopes SE will read it on how to improve DNC. (But knowing how they are w/listening to the community, that's pretty much a waste of time.)

So, while this is not everything from the list, here are some ideas from the thread on how DNC can be improved. While these are just ideas, please do not start flaming me and treating me like I'm Birdhair. I'm actually reluctant in posting these ideas out of fear of 'elitist insults'

Increase Haste Samba or all Samba effects duration to 3 minutes to reflect Haste spell.
Make Waltzes recast separate or have their own waltz tiers.
Allow Waltzes to cure alliance members.
Add Tier 2 and Tier 3 Divine Waltzes due to Divine Waltz is useless at higher levels.
Give Dancer a Conserve TP Job trait to help reduce TP cost for abilities.
Give Dancer a native Store TP trait to help with TP per hit.
Add Resist Amnesia Job Trait.
Add a charge system similar to Quickdraw/Stratagems for Waltzes
Add a Dispel Flourish.
Obtain a 'Clear Mind' effect for TP while resting to recover TP. (when weakened and need to keep curing people.)
Increase step potency by 10% first level; 5% additional level. (not sure what it is right now since people keep editing the wiki.)

If you wish to see the full list here's the URL: Allakhazam.com: Final Fantasy XI

Excellent Ideas! I dont play DNC but I know a lot about the job. You pretty much covered it.

[BRP]

Sublimation but with TP and boosted potency through having different types of Regen on, including COR's roll. That's the only obvious one I see.

EDIT: Oh and upping Evasion by huge % during Dance animations. (This wouldn't really be end-game though...)

EDIT: Honestly, most proposed Waltzes adjustments I see go overboard. It would be nice if DNC could cure outside party, only reason to break them up into tiers.

Give Dancer a Conserve TP Job trait to help reduce TP cost for abilities.

Why not just reduce TP costs? Make it main-job only if desired.