Tanks

[altwight]

I've a few things to touch up on.

Tank ragequits

How come tanks ragequit whenever they're going really slow despite having a competent healer and they healer and or dps pull to speed things up?

Tank rolls

Here's one thing that really tends to irritate me. In a standard 25man raid it's general 2tanks 5heals 18dps. When DPS gear drops generally 4-6 players roll on it. When healing gear drops generally 1-3 roll on it. When tank gear drops either 1 tank gets it or they both roll. So in the event that a healer who needs absolutely no healing gear from said raids wants to roll on tank gear why is he or she shunned? DPS has to roll against sooooo many other people I don't think tanks should cry because they have 1 more roll against them instead of 15+

Tank mentality

This can be said about healers too. Why do tanks think they're ALL that. Specially low level. "you pull you tank!' "if you pull one more time im out" etc etc. It's like they think the other players should give 2 shits about them.

sup?

[deshende]

In the case of Pug heroics, Tanks get groups instantly and dps usually have to wait a while. So I think some tanks use that as weight to have the group bend to their wishes.

Though I've never rage quit on a heroic with my warrior, it does bug me when I have the dps that doesn't work with me (pulls before I pull, doesn't start on marked target, etc). So I can understand the feeling a little bit. The dungeons flow better when folks are working together instead of against each other

[Tricen]

If dps is pulling before you do, then you're going too slow. They are heroics. I mean, for the icc5man, yeah I wouldn't do that. But for regular heroics, fuck it, mobs don't hit that hard and they don't stay alive long enough to matter . Also, when I join heroics and have 6k more hp than the tank in my /DPS/ gear, it's quite lulz.

[Acturus]

If dps is pulling before you do, then you're going too slow. They are heroics. I mean, for the icc5man, yeah I wouldn't do that. But for regular heroics, fuck it, mobs don't hit that hard and they don't stay alive long enough to matter . Also, when I join heroics and have 6k more hp than the tank in my /DPS/ gear, it's quite lulz.

If the DPS' first line of communication when he thinks a tank is too slow is to just pull, then the DPS is doing something wrong.

[Tricen]

So I should just alt tab to youtube and not carry dps anymore, amirite .

[Norellicus]

I've a few things to touch up on.

Tank ragequits

How come tanks ragequit whenever they're going really slow despite having a competent healer and they healer and or dps pull to speed things up?

Tank rolls

Here's one thing that really tends to irritate me. In a standard 25man raid it's general 2tanks 5heals 18dps. When DPS gear drops generally 4-6 players roll on it. When healing gear drops generally 1-3 roll on it. When tank gear drops either 1 tank gets it or they both roll. So in the event that a healer who needs absolutely no healing gear from said raids wants to roll on tank gear why is he or she shunned? DPS has to roll against sooooo many other people I don't think tanks should cry because they have 1 more roll against them instead of 15+

Tank mentality

This can be said about healers too. Why do tanks think they're ALL that. Specially low level. "you pull you tank!' "if you pull one more time im out" etc etc. It's like they think the other players should give 2 shits about them.

sup?

While your first and third examples are somewhat extreme cases, they can be rooted in something as simple as the tank trying to maintain responsibility for the group's well being, but can also be a general predisposition toward the low IQ that tends to prevail among the larger portion of the populous. The tank may be too busy trying to keep control of the mobs that are currently eyeing that warlock who thinks it's cool to SoC+Rain of fire immediately off the pull to realize that it's ok to pull faster, or that he isn't taking much damage and it's really not a problem that the healer is tossing out a few dps spells. Or maybe the tank gets enough frenzied action from his raids and just wants something laid back that he can laze his way through with a heroic.

It's also a little irritating to effectively have someone else tell you how to do your job by forcing the issue and making you do something that you might not normally do because otherwise the other person will be in danger shortly thereafter. As a tank, I'm considering firstly my status, secondly my healers, and thirdly the approaching situation and what impact will there be if I pull now vs waiting for everyone to catch up, and what kind of trouble could I (or one of the dps!) be in if I pull two groups at once, etc etc...not every DPS is thinking about this, and in some cases it's bad mojo. Pulling multiple packs that stun can lead to a lot of tank damage, multiple mobs that drop AOEs on the group make for a lot of group damage, etc. At some point, no matter how superman you are, it's too much. If you as a dps think things could go faster, try making a suggestion before just going and pulling half-cocked. There may be something the tank knows that you don't.

All that said, I can definitely agree there's a degree of prima donna in many tanks, they know they're in demand and if they get into a situation they don't like they're the lowest common denominator that can just change their circumstances virtually at will.

As for your 2nd example, it's stupid and needs to go away. The principle of sharing the wealth needs to start and stop with "did you get loot yet, y/n?" and go no further (guild effort:reward notwithstanding). Dual specs make this all the more necessary, being limited to the gear that caters to the the role you're currently filling is archaic now that respecs aren't (as heavily) a weighted consideration.

[Acturus]

So I should just alt tab to youtube and not carry dps anymore, amirite .

I've always felt that... y'know... talking to your heroics group is more effective.

All I know is if a dps comes across as bullying his tank by chain pulling without talking about it first, I'm much less likely to care about that dps' health bar.

I'm all for "Ludicrious Speed GO!" in pugs, but not at the expense of civility.

[Tricen]

Are we talking about raids or heroics, I'm confused. I'd never pull as a dps in a raid ._.

[altwight]

Are we talking about raids or heroics, I'm confused. I'd never pull as a dps in a raid ._.

moreso heroics, loot thing was about raids. i still find it dumb that with dual spec tanks are like 'NO THAT'S MINE!' especially when someone is already gear'd and is trying to gear their offspec. if it's not announced i can see a problem but i was talking about telling the raid leader you'd like to mainspec your offspec.

just because a player plays more and is able to gear faster than you doesn't mean he or she should be hindered by your lack of ability to play.

[deshende]

If dps is pulling before you do, then you're going too slow. They are heroics. I mean, for the icc5man, yeah I wouldn't do that. But for regular heroics, fuck it, mobs don't hit that hard and they don't stay alive long enough to matter . Also, when I join heroics and have 6k more hp than the tank in my /DPS/ gear, it's quite lulz.

All I know, is from a Warrior tanks perspective, it's a lot harder for me to get and maintain control if I don't start the combat. I have less rage to work with if I"m not hitting things or getting hit by things, and I have only so many aoe tools to use (and they have cool downs).


(And from a healer's perspective, it's annoying to heal dps over tanks as well.)

[altwight]

I'm a healer and I agree with the war thing I told my buddy that. "I can understand if it was a warrior tank since they suck at holding threat on multiple mobs without pulling first"

[Tricen]

I guess it's because I'm a Dk with boneshield, so I get hit for like nothing as it is. That may or may not skew my views lol :3

[Onorgul]

Yeah, trying to keep mobs from eating people by way of Taunt alone is a pretty lousy method.

I dunno, I pull as fast as I can and someone still occasionally tries to "help" me in that respect. I give them one free pass at it, but when they notice that aggro goes totally nuts as a result, they usually get the message and pop another handful of Ritalin. Unless you're seriously prepared to tank whatever you pull (or, at bare minimum, you're using Tricks of the Trade or Misdirection with whatever you're hitting), just let the tank do it. If he's going too slowly for you, try saying something like, "Hey, the healer seems fine and mobs are exploding, could you pull a little faster, please?" And, yes, it really does help to actually type something out in English instead of txtlish ("pull faster fgt!!" does not make me speed up).

[altwight]

i usually say this in the beginning "let's do this fast please"

i said that at the start of a gundrak this morning and got "no" from the tank so after he pulled i pulled another bunch. everyone's health was fine aggro was fine im the healer my mana was fine (infinite holydin) but the tank ragequit and said 'if you wanna go fast then don't q at all' o.O?

i'll ask nicely once, after that the 'pull plox!' comes into play.

[Norellicus]

i usually say this in the beginning "let's do this fast please"

i said that at the start of a gundrak this morning and got "no" from the tank so after he pulled i pulled another bunch. everyone's health was fine aggro was fine im the healer my mana was fine (infinite holydin) but the tank ragequit and said 'if you wanna go fast then don't q at all' o.O?

i'll ask nicely once, after that the 'pull plox!' comes into play.

I'll tell you right now I'd have given you the same response to the initial statement, with a clarification that we'll go as fast or as slow as the group's capable of. Don't like it, you can leave. I'm here to get a heroic done and really don't want to put up with some priss who acts like he has more important places to be.

All that said, most of my heroics are done in dps gear with intentional overpulling.

Don't be a tard, go with the flow. That's the point here.

[Eversor]

i usually say this in the beginning "let's do this fast please"

i said that at the start of a gundrak this morning and got "no" from the tank so after he pulled i pulled another bunch. everyone's health was fine aggro was fine im the healer my mana was fine (infinite holydin) but the tank ragequit and said 'if you wanna go fast then don't q at all' o.O?

i'll ask nicely once, after that the 'pull plox!' comes into play.

And this is why I rolled Fury on my warrior. I dont want to tank when no matter how fast/slow you are, people arent happy. Sure it takes longer to get a dungeon queue but the lack of headaches from whiny people makes it worthwhile.

[MrSamuels]

The only problem with tanks i have at the moment, is the "i am more important because i get groups, if you don't like it wait another 15 minutes" well sorry fucker, i played a game where 3 hours of waiting for a group was staple so fuck you and your elitism. This is probably the same for all people that played FFXI though. I think tanks kinda need to drop it too, because all of the best runs i have done in heroics has been 4 dps 1 healer runs, fuck running with annoying tanks who complain when they hit 90% hp and beg for heals they aren't needed anymore anyways for those 2 frost badges. 31k HP and evasion is fine for tanking nearly all bosses anyways.
Other then that i'm cool with tanks, Tott them everytime i can to help them, stun on mobs i know can be annoying, kick those ranged casters so they run into the AoE etc. I just don't understand why some tanks are obnoxious.

[Onorgul]

I just don't understand why some tanks are obnoxious.

Same reason why some healers and some DPS are obnoxious, chief. It's got nothing to do with their party role.

[Eaglestrike]

We're the important role in the group, you'll do things how I wish. Same shit happens in FFXI with bards, you'll touch a bards penis to get into groups, similar thing with tanks in WoW.

[Dein]

When I'm tanking heroics for random groups I also hate it when the dps/healers start trying to tell me to go faster. I don't pull multiple groups at once (and that's due to seeing a lot of dps open with aoe as soon as they see me grab stuff) but I pretty much pull non-stop unless the healer can't keep up. I don't want to clean up or deal with the mistakes a dps or healer makes and take the blame for something I didn't do.

Running with guild mates though really does take care a lot of problems when I want to spam heroics for emblems.