Iroquois is a Country? Travelling on Iroquois Passport

[aduidarnenye]

I saw this news story and thought it was interesting. Apparently some natives of the Iroquois tribe in America believe they are a sovereign nation in their own right, and therefore refuse to have American passports. This has kept them out of an international lacrosse competition.

Should Britain allow the natives to attend on their private passports or should they continue to refuse until they have recognisable ones?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/15/sp...se.html?src=mv

For a few hours on Wednesday, the Iroquois national lacrosse team thought its passport brouhaha had been resolved, thanks to a one-time waiver from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton allowing it to travel to the world championships in England using tribal documents instead of United States passports.
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But the British government later Wednesday was said to have refused to grant visas to the team even after receiving Mrs. Clinton’s waiver, a potentially fatal setback for the team.

“We are deeply disappointed, and urge our friends and supporters to reach out to the British government to seek reconsideration,” Chief Oren Lyons of the Onondaga Nation, one of the six nations that comprise the Iroquois Confederacy, said in a statement.

The team’s travel plans were first thrown awry last week when the British consulate asked for a written assurance from the United States government that the team would be allowed to re-enter the country using its tribal documents — an assurance that federal officials would not provide.

They changed their stance on Wednesday when Mrs. Clinton authorized the special waiver. The State Department then provided the Iroquois team with letters providing assurance of their re-entry, said P. J. Crowley, the department’s spokesman.

Mr. Crowley told reporters in Washington that it would be up to the British government to decide whether to issue visas to the players based on those letters. But the Iroquois team described that decision as more of a formality, with the biggest hurdle — coming to an agreement with the State Department — having been cleared.

That turned out not to be the case. The British consulate ruled that the letters from the State Department were not sufficient because they ultimately were not passports, according to a United States government official informed of the decision.

“A this point there’s not a lot we can do,” Percy Abrams, the team’s executive director, said in a telephone interview. “We were given a set of demands, and then we met those demands — and then they were switched. That’s the way we feel.”

The U.K. Border Agency said in a statement that the British government would welcome the Iroquois team, but only if their players “present a document that we recognize as valid to enable us to complete our immigration and other checks." The statement did not discuss the letters issued by the State Department, and a spokeswoman declined to elaborate. Until Wednesday morning, when Mrs. Clinton authorized the waiver, State Department officials had noted that federal law does not allow a tribal document to be used in lieu of a United States passport for international travel. (Security is one reason: The Iroquois passports are partly hand-written and do not include any of the security features that make United States passports resistant to counterfeiting.)

What the State Department did offer, however, were expedited United States passports for the team and its 20-person entourage. But the Iroquois team refused to accept them, saying that traveling to an international competition on what they consider to be a foreign nation’s passport would be an affront to their sovereignty.

Mr. Crowley, the State Department spokesman, repeatedly emphasized Wednesday that the waiver granted by Mrs. Clinton was a one-time exception. He said that the team’s players — and all other American Indians — would be expected to travel on United States passports in the future.

Mr. Crowley added that Mrs. Clinton had taken a personal interest in the Iroquois team, which has many players from New York, the state she represented as a United States senator.

“She feels the same way that many Americans feel,” he said. “We want to see a team, which is by every indication one of the leading lacrosse teams in the world, have the opportunity to participate in the Olympics of lacrosse.”

The Iroquois team, ranked fourth in the world, is scheduled to open the tournament on Thursday evening against England, a game the team now seems all but certain to miss.

A number of elected officials have lobbied on the team’s behalf in recent days, including Gov. Bill Richardson of New Mexico; Rep. Louise M. Slaughter of New York; and Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand of New York.

A spokesman for Ms. Gillibrand, Glen Caplin, said Wednesday evening that the senator planned to ask the State Department to partner with the Canadian government in order to work out any concerns the British or any other countries have about tribal passports, “so that this kind of situation never happens again.”

The situation has been a costly one for the Iroquois team, which raised $300,000 to finance their trip to the tournament. Chief Lyons said the delays were costing the team some $25,000 per day, although the filmmaker James Cameron — who has taken an interest in the past in helping indigenous peoples — agreed to donate $50,000 to the team to defray those costs.

[Takedown3]

failed to glass'em, had 'em down but couldn't put 'em out

[bigrougabagel]

I think the situation here is not whether they would be allowed to enter britain, but whether they would be allowed back into the united states. I heard this same story a few days ago and I believe that is where the problem lies. So essentially they would be stuck in an airport because the US government would not recognize their iroquois passports.

[Vuitton]

I think the situation here is not whether they would be allowed to enter britain, but whether they would be allowed back into the united states. I heard this same story a few days ago and I believe that is where the problem lies. So essentially they would be stuck in an airport because the US government would not recognize their iroquois passports.

You have it backwards. SoS Clinton provided the team with documents to give Britain stating that they would be allowed back into the US on their return, but then Britain decided it wouldn't recognize their Iroquois tribal "passport" (double-speak meaning they don't acknowledge Iroquois as a country, you have to be recognized as a country to have passports that will be valid internationally), which means the team can't enter Britain at all. So, SoS Clinton provided the team U.S. Passports, which Britain would recognize, but the team is refusing to use them because they find it insulting to their tribal independence (or something).

Basically its a pride thing. I find it amusing because the Department of State basically bent over backwards for them twice (providing a document saying they would be let back in the country if they left, and then also providing 20+ U.S. passports on extremely short notice).

[Kuya]

Should have killed them all centuries ago to avoid this problem.

[Darus Grey]

Basically its a pride thing.

Hardly, the Indian nations ARE sovereign nations. They resent the fact that the US doesn't treat them as such, and another foreign nation doing the same is even more insulting.

Iroquois/Seneca/Tuscaroran/etc Indians around here have all issued their own passports for decades, and usually have no issue using them.

[Aesctaa]

Don't attend International tournaments then?

Entry into another country is a privilege, not a right. If they were so sensitive to identity then how about they respect the identity of the country they are trying to visit and do things properly.

If it was a bunch of randoms from Asia trying to get into any western country with handwritten 'passports' they'd be rightly told where to go.

[Darus Grey]

Don't attend International tournaments then?

Entry into another country is a privilege, not a right. If they were so sensitive to identity then how about they respect the identity of the country they are trying to visit and do things properly.

If it was a bunch of randoms from Asia trying to get into any western country with handwritten 'passports' they'd be rightly told where to go.

A better analogy would be telling people from Ireland they can't use their Ireland passports to enter the US.

Yes, I just went there.

[Kuya]

Oh man, that would make the Irish quite angry.

[Darus Grey]

What exactly is the "proper" way anyways?

The "proper" way would seem like getting a passport from your country of origin, say, the Iroquois nation, wouldn't it?

That would simply make too much sense, so must be wrong.

I like how people play it off on them though, they're "prideful" "stubborn" etc... has nothing to do with ENGLAND being douchebags for no reason, when I know for a fact people have visited there in the past on their native american passports.

[Kiro]

Fat fuck white people, you're on their land anyway. Stinkin' foreigners.

OKA CRISIS BITCHES.

[BerenTebogo]

Darus preachin' the good word up in here.

[Vuitton]

Takes more than declaring yourself an independent country. You have to be recognized as such by other countries as well. Britain does not recognize Iroquois as a country, if they did they would have accepted their passports. Since they don't, well here we are.

Edit:

And they are stubborn and prideful. If they're living in the USA and the Iroquois nation (assuming its surrounded by USA territory), they most likely have double citizenship, so they can have two passports (Iroquois and US). The fact that the Department of State gave them all US passports validates this for me. They're choosing not to use their second (US) passport. They insist on using their first (Iroquois) passport. Well if you want to play the game use the passport Britain wants, not the one you want. You don't play by your rules when you go to another country. You play by theirs.

[Aesctaa]

@ Darus - Except this isn't the 1920s, and full Biometric passports that comply to Diplomatic regulations issued by an internationally recognized fully independent country are in absolutely no way comparable to what amount to home made partially hand written notebooks with a polaroid picture stuck in the back.

If they want to feel aggrieved then so be it, but no one is forcing them to travel anywhere, they chose not to seek/use a US/Canadian Passport.

[Qalbert]

Indian it doesn't even matter.

[Ksandra]

this makes me wonder. What does BG feel about Indians having sovereign nations in general? And what limits (if any ) should it have.

[Vuitton]

white guilt (ie: throwing them a bone so they feel better and we feel and look better)

[Zalius]

a nation is a people and not a piece of land

[Zeb]

this makes me wonder. What does BG feel about Indians having sovereign nations in general? And what limits (if any ) should it have.

As long as their nation isn't in the Buy-Sell-Trade forum. The term indian giver is around for a reason.

[Maaglin]

+1 to the British.