Cure VI Formula

[Nyaanyaa_Midgardsormr]

EDIT: This Formula is currently under testing. It appears the estimated caps are incorrect. x = 2 and y = 570 are the only verified values. Under which cap those values are to be used is unknown. I'll edit the OP accordingly once we find those caps, or can verify there are no caps.

Foreword

Since I haven't had access to the game since mid April, I couldn't do any testing on this myself. However, luckily today I found a small testing sample on FFXIclopedia, and after some observation and maths I believe I have cracked the formula. Unfortunately, due to me not being able to log into the game, some values are based solely on assumption, which are reasonable in my opinion nonetheless.

Defining Variables

H = amount of HP healed; N
MND = Mind stat of the caster, including MND+ enhancement; N
VIT = Vitality stat of the caster, including VIT+ enhancement; N
Healing_Magic = Healing Magic Skill of the caster, including Healing Magic Skill+ enhancement; N
PW = 3 * (MND + Healing_Magic / 5) + VIT; 'Healing Power'; N Edit: There was a mistake in the definition, surprised noone noticed.
min = the minimum cure possible with the corresponding Cure spell; N
sc1 = Soft Cap 1; N
sc2 = Soft Cap 2; N
c = sc2 - sc1 = sc1 - min = (sc2 - min) / 2; N
x = divisor; R
y = addend; R

PW(z) = PW needed to reach z, where z = min, sc1 or sc2; N

Default Formula

H = floor(PW / x + y)

Spoiler: show

Observations

Cure Tier/Cap Correlation
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/a...orrelation.png

So what do we notice here? All min and sc2 values are multiples of 10. Also, all min values are higher than the next lower tier sc2 value, i.e. Cure II min > Cure I sc2 etc. However, this pattern seems to break with Cure VI, as we will see later.

Cure Tier/PW(z) Correlation
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/a...orrelation.png

Noticing patterns, from tier II on the gap between PW(sc1) and PW(sc2) is always larger than the gap between PW(min) and PW(sc2). Furthermore there seems to be a pattern in the PW(min) increase:

Cure I + 40 -> Cure II + 40 -> Cure III + 20 -> Cure IV + 20 -> Cure V + 10?/+ 20? -> Cure VI

So the PW(min) for Cure VI seems to be either 170 or 180.

Also, all values are multiples of 10.

Cure Tier/c correlation
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/a...orrelation.png

Aside from Cure I, there seems to be a strict pattern regarding the c increase:

Cure II * 2 -> Cure III * 2 -> Cure IV * 2 -> Cure V * 2? -> Cure VI

Hence I believe it's safe to say, the c value for Cure VI is 240.

Cure VI Test Samples and Calculations (samples taken from http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cure_VI)

Test 1
MND = 79
Healing_Magic = 276
VIT = 68
-> PW = 470
H = 805

Test 2
MND = 81
Healing_Magic = 276
VIT = 68
-> PW = 476
H = 808

Here we can see that by increasing PW by 6, we increase H by 3. Since PW needs to be a multiple of 10 to fall under a new cap, we can safely say both samples are under the same cap. Due to the correlation of PW and H here, we can define 1.5 < x <= 2. Because: floor(6 / 1.5) > 4; and 6 / 2 = 3.

Test 3
MND = 79
Healing_Magic = 291
VIT = 68
-> PW = 479
H = 809

So by increasing PW by 9, we increase H by 4. So we can now further define 1.8 < x <=2.
Because: 9 / 1.8 = 5; and 4 < 9 / 2 < 5.

Test 4
MND = 86
Healing_Magic = 291
VIT = 68
-> PW = 500
H = 820

By increasing PW by 30, we increase H by 15. We could now further define 1.875 < x < 2... however, considering the 'n < x' is steadily increasing, while the 'x < 2' is static throughout the test, and looking at the x values for other Cure tiers, I think at this point it's safe to say, x = 2.

Now using the Default Formula, we can calculate the y value under the current cap.

H = PW / x + y
-> 820 = 500 / 2 + y
-> y = 570

Let's see if that formula works with the other test values:
Test 1: 805 = 470 / 2 + 570 -> 805 = 235 + 570 -> 805 = 805
Test 2: 808 = 476 / 2 + 570 -> 808 = 238 + 570 -> 808 = 808
Test 3: 809 = 479 / 2 + 570 -> 809 = 239 + 570 -> 809 = 809

Works fine with all values.

Test 5
MND = 146
Healing_Magic = 291
VIT = 68
-> PW = 680
H = 906

Using our formula, we notice something is wrong here:
906 =/= 680 / 2 + 570
906 =/= 340 + 570
906 =/= 910

Now what happened here? Apparently we breached a soft cap. So what do we do? We try to determine the exact soft cap. So far we know:
x = 2
y = 570
c = 240
PW(min) = 170 or 180.
Going with the assumption that we just breached sc1, those x and y values are static up to sc1, i.e. those are the x and y values for the gap between PW(min) and PW(sc1). Now we can use those values to determine the min for Cure VI, by using following formula:

min = PW(min) / x + y.

Assuming PW(min) = 170, we get:

min = 170 / 2 + 570
min = 85 + 570
min = 655

Assuming PW(min) = 180, we get:

min = 180 / 2 + 570
min = 90 + 570
min = 660

So min is either 665 or 660. However, due to our observation we know that min is always a multiple of 10. Hence we can conclude that min = 660.
Since sc1 = min + c, and sc2 = min + 2 * c, we can also say that sc1 = 900 and sc2 = 1140.
Because:
900 = 660 + 240
900 = 900, and
1140 = 660 + 2 * 240
1140 = 660 + 480
1140 = 660.

Knowing sc1, we can now determine PW(sc1) by using this formula:

sc1 = PW(sc1) / x + y
900 = PW(sc1) / 2 + 570
330 = PW(sc1) / 2
660 = PW(sc1)

Now looking at our values from Test 5 again:
MND = 146
Healing_Magic = 291
VIT = 68
-> PW = 680
H = 906
we see that from sc1 on, increasing PW by 20 increases H by 6. Due to lack of any more samples here, I'm simply jumping to the conclusion x = 10/3.
Determining y:
sc1 = PW(sc1) / x + y
900 = 660 / (10/3) + y
900 = 198 + y
702 = y.

testing x and y with the values from Test 5:
906 = 680 / (10/3) + 702
906 = 204 + 702
906 = 906
works

Determining PW(sc2):
sc2 = PW(sc2) / x + y
1140 = PW(sc2) / (10/3) + 702
438 = PW(sc2) / (10/3)
1460 = PW(sc2)
Seeing as the calculated PW(sc2) value is a multiple of 10, those values appear to be correct.

Conclusions

Cure VI Formula

H = PW / x + y
where:
if PW < 180, H = 660
if 180 <= PW < 660, x = 2; y = 570
if 660 <= PW < 1460, x = 10/3; y = 702
if 1460 <= PW, x = ?; y = ?

Caps
min = 660
sc1 = 900
sc2 = 1140

Miscellanious
c = 240
PW(min) = 180
PW(sc1) = 660
PW(sc2) = 1460

EDIT: There were more test samples on the otherwiki page. However, since the VIT and Healing Magic Skill values were unclear, I ignored those samples.

[LinktheDeme]

what does this mean in retard speak?

[Byrthnoth]

Is Cure VI worth casting over Cure V ever?

[Priran]

Is Cure VI worth casting over Cure V ever?

When your target is missing ~1500 HP and you have enough MND/Healing skill to cure that much. Keep in mind, the Max HP buff from the cruor prospector in Abyssea can put people at over 2k HP.

p.s. Kaeko's testing shows Cure 6 has a fixed enmity value of the same CE as 5, and 100 more VE.

[LinktheDeme]

Is Cure VI worth casting over Cure V ever?

I don't think so at our current HP values. A tank really should never have 1500ish HP missing. Maybe once we get 2500-3000 HP I could see it worthwhile, it just costs so damn much MP for such a small increment

[Seanr]

I don't think so at our current HP values. A tank really should never have 1500ish HP missing. Maybe once we get 2500-3000 HP I could see it worthwhile, it just costs so damn much MP for such a small increment

You mean there are no moves that hit a tank (or anybody for that matter) for 1500~?

[Marcicus]

Aside from Spike Flail, no.

[Seanr]

sure there is.... Hell, we had cactus spamming 10k needles last night. eventually it took people down leaving less people to soak it up

[Nyaanyaa_Midgardsormr]

Is Cure VI worth casting over Cure V ever?

Well, let's say your stats look somewhat like this:
MND 140
VIT 70
Healing Magic 301
Cure Potency +30%
(think that's about an average cure set, haven't been ig in a while)

so:
Cure V = 921HP --> 6.82HP/MP ratio
Cure VI = 1,173HP --> 5.17HP/MP ratio

So Cure V pretty much beats Cure VI in MP efficiency. However, let's say you have the same stats, but Cure Potency +50% this time. You look at:

Cure V = 955HP --> 7.07HP/MP
Cure VI = 1,345HP --> 5.96HP/MP

Cure V still beats Cure VI in efficiency, but Cure VI gains a much larger benefit from the added Cure Potency. So adding more Cure Potency, and Lights Day/Weather kicking in, Cure VI will eventually beat Cure V in efficiency.

[Nyaanyaa_Midgardsormr]

what does this mean in retard speak?

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._6452608_n.jpg

[Amele]

Is Cure VI worth casting over Cure V ever?

somehow you get everything else on cooldown and have enough mp to spare?
someone needs more than ~1500hp and your cure VI hits that much*
you want to show off

I barely found uses for cure V except in certain emergency situations at 75 so I'd be a little surprised if cure VI becomes a staple, unless hp starts to scale -alot- more past 80.

*I wouldn't be surprised if some tanks need this much in the near future when weakness wears off.

[LinktheDeme]

Well, let's say your stats look somewhat like this:
MND 140
VIT 70
Healing Magic 301
Cure Potency +30%
(think that's about an average cure set, haven't been ig in a while)

so:
Cure V = 921HP --> 6.82HP/MP ratio
Cure VI = 1,173HP --> 5.17HP/MP ratio

So Cure V pretty much beats Cure VI in MP efficiency. However, let's say you have the same stats, but Cure Potency +50% this time. You look at:

Cure V = 955HP --> 7.07HP/MP
Cure VI = 1,345HP --> 5.96HP/MP

Cure V still beats Cure VI in efficiency, but Cure VI gains a much larger benefit from the added Cure Potency. So adding more Cure Potency, and Lights Day/Weather kicking in, Cure VI will eventually beat Cure V in efficiency.

I was just doing these numbers to plugin to the formulas to show that Cure V would really never be more MP efficient in the situation that does arise and you beat me so booo(seldom though they are)

I think the 140 MND you used is way more than the average cure set

Average set I would guess is around this

Main: 17% staff
grip: Staff Strap
Ammo: Hedgehog bomb
Head: MND +6 Cure Potency +3% (Kupo head)
Neck: Cure potency + 2% (I forget the name
l.ear: Geist Earring +(1 MND)
r.ear: Loquacious
Body: Nobles
Gloves: Blessed Mitts (MND + 7 )
Rings (These can vary a lot depending on if people go for a MP+ set or MND set assuming a MND set the "average" person will probably go for the +4' with a Tamas)
l.ring: Tamas (MND +5)
r.ring: Sapphire Ring (MND +4)
back: Rainbow cape (MND + 3)
waist: Penintant's (SP?) (Mnd +5)
Legs: Blessed Trousers (MND+6)
Feet: Cure Clogs

assuming hume whm/sch (for the sake of average) your base mind will be around 73

73+ 6 +1 +7 + 4 + 5 + 3 + 5 + 6 = 110 MND

edit:

*I wouldn't be surprised if some tanks need this much in the near future when weakness wears off.

Tanks already need this much but I don't think most WHMs will be able to make it to the point where it is MP efficient


edit 2: Does anyone know the difference between the added stoneskin effects of V and VI with solace? Could have a fair impact

[Jeryhn]

sure there is.... Hell, we had cactus spamming 10k needles last night. eventually it took people down leaving less people to soak it up

This is what Misery Cura is for, not Cure6.

[takito09]

I really think its retarded using a spell that will use average 25% of your mp considering most whms (no taru) have around 1k mp
Cure IV 88
Cure V 135

Cure VI 227..... (+ 15 sec recast)

So unless u are using penury i really think its useless atm... Really SE needs to make it around 200 mp so it can be a good spell to use.

[Hanyoko]

Divine Seal + Cure VI -> undead mob

... mostly curious at this point now as the general use of the spell seems beaten by V

[Nyaanyaa_Midgardsormr]

Just throwing out some (more) numbers, in case anyone is curious.

With a Healing Magic Skill of 301 (Lv.80 skill cap according to otherwiki) and 70VIT, you'd need at least 404MND to breach the 1,140HP cap. In other words, pretty much impossible lol.

[LilWhmMan]

Just throwing out some (more) numbers, in case anyone is curious.

With a Healing Magic Skill of 301 (Lv.80 skill cap according to otherwiki) and 70VIT, you'd need at least 404MND to breach the 1,140HP cap. In other words, pretty much impossible lol.

Nevermind, I didn't read you were talking about soft caps.

[Amele]

Just throwing out some (more) numbers, in case anyone is curious.

With a Healing Magic Skill of 301 (Lv.80 skill cap according to otherwiki) and 70VIT, you'd need at least 404MND to breach the 1,140HP cap. In other words, pretty much impossible lol.

I wouldn't be surprised to see whitemages at healing magic skill above 332 at level 80, by the way. (+15 healer's mitts+1, +16 merits if merited) doesn't sacrifice any mind. not that it changes the general thrust of your argument^^

[Nyaanyaa_Midgardsormr]

Did you forget about cure potency? Or did I just get wooshed?

You can get past 1,140HP with Cure Potency enhancement. However, Cure Potency does not add to PW, so you do not break the actual soft cap 2.

[LilWhmMan]

Right, if you read the ninja-edit, I fixed my statement