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[notorious bum]

Court Exempts Corporations from Alien Tort Law

A federal appeals court has ruled US corporations can no longer be sued for human rights violations abroad under the longstanding Alien Tort Statute. Earlier this month, the Second US Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that Alien tort claims can only be brought against individuals, not corporations. The ruling dismissed a lawsuit accusing the oil giant Royal Dutch Shell of complicity in the murder and torture of Nigerian activists including Ken Saro-Wiwa.

In a separate opinion, Second Circuit Judge Pierre Leval criticized the ruling, writing, "The majority opinion deals a substantial blow to international law and its undertaking to protect fundamental human rights… So long as they incorporate, businesses will now be free to trade in or exploit slaves, employ mercenary armies to do dirty work for despots, perform genocides or operate torture prisons for a despot’s political opponents, or engage in piracy—all without civil liability to victims."

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/9/29/headlines#1

Are there any other unfair laws that corporations have left to fight?

Won't be long before the UAE starts getting jealous.

[Olo401]

america... fuck yeah

[Kuya]

Is there a legal difference between a person and an individual?

[Korietsu]

Most US Corps are treated as individual persons, rather than just a company. Making so that charges can only be brought against one person clears up the law I suppose, even if it's a shitty change.

[Kuya]

I mean that: i've heard that corporations are considered legal persons in the US (is this accurate? legal persons?), but i'm not sure if the word "individual" has some legal significance independent of person. If person is the same as individual, then i don't understand this:

he Second US Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that Alien tort claims can only be brought against individuals, not corporations.

If person = individual, then aren't corporations in fact individuals to whom alien tort claims can be brought against?

[Olo401]

Is there a legal difference between a person and an individual?

[14:17] <Olorin> you know what else this ruling means?
[14:18] <Olorin> corporations are not people
[14:18] <@zosi> nonono
[14:18] <@zosi> they have all the BENEFITS of individual citizenship, but none of the RESPONSIBILITIES
[14:18] <Olorin> oh right
[14:18] <@zosi> that's how it has to work, anything else is sociacommuninazism
[14:18] <Olorin> i keep forgetting

[Feedmenow]

Obviously individual persons are legally inferior to corporate persons.

[Marootsoobutsu]

If this ruling lets you target the heads of corporations, instead of just the corporation itself, then it seems to me this is incredibly awesome. Targeting the person making decisions, instead of simply a pseudo-person, is fricking awesome.

[SephYuyX]

Person =/= Individual = Person

A person can mean anything depending on what youre talking about; individuals, people, nations, ethnic groups, corporations, etc.
An individual is a singular person, seperate from a corporation.

[Kuya]

Person =/= Individual = Person

A person can mean anything depending on what youre talking about; individuals, people, nations, ethnic groups, corporations, etc.
An individual is a singular person, seperate from a corporation.

Is this the legal definition?

[Kuya]

If this ruling lets you target the heads of corporations, instead of just the corporation itself, then it seems to me this is incredibly awesome. Targeting the person making decisions, instead of simply a pseudo-person, is fricking awesome.

I'm not so sure. If only individuals humans are accountable rather than the entire company itself as a legal entity, then all that is required for the company to rid itself of the burden is to get a new CEO(s) and continue to do what it was doing. I think you also have to hit the shareholders in some way.

[notorious bum]

From what I understand, this basically means only those directly involved with the human rights violations can be charged. The corporation can never be damaged this way and something like raping and murdering in the Congo can be done under the company flag and only those African savages will be punished for what is now the norm for controling territory.

Corporations already had the power to get away with most any violations before, they just factored the govt. fines it into their profit margins. Infact, there were actually ways to include these fines on their tax forms, so convenient!

[Feedmenow]

Person =/= Individual = Person

A person can mean anything depending on what youre talking about; individuals, people, nations, ethnic groups, corporations, etc.
An individual is a singular person, seperate from a corporation.

I think the main gripe is that this technical distinction is being used for a loophole so that corporations can (literally) get away with murder.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Is there a link to the opinion somewhere?

[guartz]

I dont see how this is a bad thing. Now CEOs who make the decisions to use forced labor or whatever the hell cannot hide under a corporate veil. Charges can be brought directly against them. This is a win.

[Kuya]

I think it's better if the company gets punished and the CEO. Much better result.

[Correction]

Is there a link to the opinion somewhere?

http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/opinions.htm

Took 10 seconds to google it, I thought law students were supposed to be good at looking this shit up? :D

Docket is 06-4800-cv, 06-4876-cv

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

W/o reading the opinion my gut instinct is the ruling says X person can't sue foreign corporations in the U.S. if they aren't at least U.S. citizens, and the tort wasn't committed against them.

It looks like what they tried to was sue Royal Dutch Shell, which did something sketchy, and hoped to get at them through Shell corp. a U.S. subsidiary.

Edit: They didn't teach me how to use google.

[guartz]

I think it's better if the company gets punished and the CEO. Much better result.

It's like a cop fining the driver and the car.

[Kuya]

It's like a cop fining the driver and the car.

Possible, if for whatever reason our society decided that cars are legal persons too.