Magic Damage effectiveness

[Damane]

I have a question about how effectiv magic damage+ is on lower tier nukes is. Everyone keeps sayings its pritty substantional. Does that only apply if you fight harder stuff? because on low lvl enemys (mandys just outside adoulin) hagondes hat/cuffs with more MAB outdmg buremte hat/otomi gloves. I am really confused :/ what should you focus first on when going to gear for low tier nuke spells. Magic Damage > INT > MAB?

[Yugl]

Understand what each stat affects:

Simply put, you're lookin' at (Base Damage) and (MAB/MDB)

To determine the damage increase, you simply divide the new value by the previous value.

(New Base DMG/Previous Base DMG) and (New MAB/MDB)/(Previous MAB/MDB)

If you look at the right side, you know that dividing by a fraction is like multiplying by the inverse, so you can say:

(New MAB*MDB)/(Previous MAB*MDB)

You can simplify this to: (New MAB/Previous MAB)

So, you now have:

(New Base DMG/Previous Base DMG) and (New MAB/Previous MAB)

Lets look at he factors you described: INT, MAB, and MDMG

INT increases base damage by an amount specific to the spell. To know how much, you need to refer to the table here: http://bg-wiki.com/bg/Magic_Damage

MDMG simply adds the value to the base damage. If you had 200 base DMG and add MDMG+100, you have 300 base damage.

MAB is a straightforward addition to the previous MAB

Determine gains:

(New Base DMG/Previous Base DMG) and (New MAB/Previous MAB)

Throw the numbers into that and determine which gives the greater DMG increase. The reason many say MDMG for lesser tier spells is because the previous base dmg is likely to be minimal (In some cases, this is due to dINT caps). That doesn't mean MDMG wins universally. You have to check each case with the above equations.

[Ophannus]

Just from my own experience it depends on how much m.dmg vs how much MAB you can get in that slot. Lately I've been on a SCH grind and nuking everything with T1. If your Hagondes pieces have >20 MAB augments, they will likely outdamage Buremete/Otomi(at least on everything I fought). Zuq.Grip and Dosis Tathlum are two pieces of MDMG gear you should look into getting since there's almost no competition for those slots for MAB(1-3 M.dmg doesn't compare to 10-15 MDMG on T1's.) Also look into getting a Bookworm Cape if you're SCH or the new Shekmet belt too. With enough INT/MAB/MDMG, you can pull off some pretty impressive nukes on SCH with Hailstorm/Obi, I'm getting ~1700 Blizzard I's on anything without high INT or MDT. Your damage will be gimped on things like Ark Angels though since SE gave them a flat-out Damage Taken% value and extremely high INT.(In VE, Taru was taking 800-900 T1 nukes, on Normal, my unresisted nukes were doing 400, and on Very Difficult, I can barely break 200)

[Damane]

Just from my own experience it depends on how much m.dmg vs how much MAB you can get in that slot. Lately I've been on a SCH grind and nuking everything with T1. If your Hagondes pieces have >20 MAB augments, they will likely outdamage Buremete/Otomi(at least on everything I fought). Zuq.Grip and Dosis Tathlum are two pieces of MDMG gear you should look into getting since there's almost no competition for those slots for MAB(1-3 M.dmg doesn't compare to 10-15 MDMG on T1's.) Also look into getting a Bookworm Cape if you're SCH or the new Shekmet belt too. With enough INT/MAB/MDMG, you can pull off some pretty impressive nukes on SCH with Hailstorm/Obi, I'm getting ~1700 Blizzard I's on anything without high INT or MDT. Your damage will be gimped on things like Ark Angels though since SE gave them a flat-out Damage Taken% value and extremely high INT.(In VE, Taru was taking 800-900 T1 nukes, on Normal, my unresisted nukes were doing 400, and on Very Difficult, I can barely break 200)

i have all the things you said above (ecxept for the mithra AA belt and the divine might earring), i was useing previously hagondes with MAB+20+ augments and was kind of confused why my T1 nukes did lesser dmg after i got buremte hat and otomi gloves.

thx for all the answers!

[dasva]

It might be easier to think of the magic dmg stat as basically serving the same purpose as int. except there is no multiplier or caps and it probably doesn't help macc. Because it adds on the same as int it's pretty easy to determine how much int is worth how much magic dmg as long as you know which nuke and approximate dints.

As far as comparing magic dmg to MAB it's a little harder. With the stat vomit we get now it's likely that you will be getting multiple stats making it easier to just plug into the magic dmg equation. But if you want a quick approximation you could rearrangment of the equation.

Doing so would put the ratio of MAB increase to D increase to be ~ D/MAB. Where D= mDMG + V + (dINT × M). And neuteral MAB is 100. But yeah with stat vomit giving you multiple stats on things and changing the ratios some probably better off just plugging it into the equation.

[Damane]

So I got a Seidr Cotehardie 2-3 weeks ago for tier 1 nukeing to save MP. I didnt play around much for it, but since this update the 2% MP returned from nuke damage doesnt surpass the MP cost of the spell. Was this allways the case or did SE ninja this on the jan 20 update? just curious and asking, since I havent played pre update much with it I am not sure if that was allways the case. Cotehardie only seems to return the Max MP the spell costs (in case of stone its 4 MP in case of thunder its 34 MP)

[Malithar]

So I got a Seidr Cotehardie 2-3 weeks ago for tier 1 nukeing to save MP. I didnt play around much for it, but since this update the 2% MP returned from nuke damage doesnt surpass the MP cost of the spell. Was this allways the case or did SE ninja this on the jan 20 update? just curious and asking, since I havent played pre update much with it I am not sure if that was allways the case. Cotehardie only seems to return the Max MP the spell costs (in case of stone its 4 MP in case of thunder its 34 MP)

Only had it about 4-5 months or so, but it's been that way since then at least, dunno if it was ever different. Prolly be kinda OP to be able to nuke back your MP with how much damage you can crank out now, but doesn't stop me from wishing it worked that way.

[Damane]

Only had it about 4-5 months or so, but it's been that way since then at least, dunno if it was ever different. Prolly be kinda OP to be able to nuke back your MP with how much damage you can crank out now, but doesn't stop me from wishing it worked that way.

well nukers are still in a disadvantage somewhat to melees, so it really wouldnt be THAT OP. not to mention that melees have somewhat a higher chance to survive shit, but mages can die easy. It would allow nukeing mages to sub anything else then /rdm just out of fear they would run out of MP, maybe nin just for the survivability of utsu.

[Malithar]

Hate posting this time of day, BG has this randomish maintenance that likes to eat posts. -.-

I dunno how you could view unlimited nuking potential while gaining MP as not broken though. I dunno about you, but the nuking jobs that I sub Rdm on sub it for far more than Refresh (it's just a nice additional tool). Smn/Rdm if -nas aren't needed, Geo/Rdm for cures/debuffs/buffs, Blm/Rdm for cures and goodies, Sch/Rdm for Haste/Phalanx/Convert/Dispel without switching arts, etc. If any of them subbed something like /Nin in your example (not that it's an invalid example), they'd be losing a lot of tools that are typically available to them, crippling the functionality that we expect of them. I'd totally lose my mind on Geo if all I could do was bubbles and nuke. Same deal with Smn and Blm, and Sch would get by, but it'd be missing some important aspects that would need to be made up by another party member (Haste namely).

If some asinine fear of running out of MP exists for a job, it should be fixed at the core of that job, not through some piece of gear that would allow the potential for unlimited nuking while gaining MP. It already allows for free nuking up to what, Blizz, Thunder, and Stone II depending on your sets. That's good enough for a piece of gear imo.

[dasva]

well nukers are still in a disadvantage somewhat to melees, so it really wouldnt be THAT OP. not to mention that melees have somewhat a higher chance to survive shit, but mages can die easy. It would allow nukeing mages to sub anything else then /rdm just out of fear they would run out of MP, maybe nin just for the survivability of utsu.

Maybe the fear isn't so much unlimited nuking (which really you can do already like is) so much as gaining mp for other things. Could you imagine your healer running out of mp and using a nuke to get some to heal lol

[Motenten]

So I got a Seidr Cotehardie 2-3 weeks ago for tier 1 nukeing to save MP. I didnt play around much for it, but since this update the 2% MP returned from nuke damage doesnt surpass the MP cost of the spell. Was this allways the case or did SE ninja this on the jan 20 update?

Orison pants work the same way for cures (as was determined years ago). There should never have been an expectation that it could reduce spell cost to less than 0 (ie: give back MP), as it's almost certainly implemented as a cost reduction, not a "give you back MP" manner.

[Damane]

Maybe the fear isn't so much unlimited nuking (which really you can do already like is) so much as gaining mp for other things. Could you imagine your healer running out of mp and using a nuke to get some to heal lol

i know, but serious in any heated battle your healer usually wont have much time to nuke away much to refill their MP and on anything else that doesnt require this attention of your healer, the battle would be easy enough that your healer would not run out of MP. Now you could argue that 2 mages could alternate with this to keep their MP on top, but thats the same as bringing someone else to nuke instead of DD, because one would be healing while the other is nukeing to regain MP. I dont see it being that OP with the current enmity system we have, not like you can easy overnuke on anything remotely hard without eating dirt as a nuker sooner or later.

[dasva]

On the other hand with the DDs we have now if you stick to T1 a melee swing will get it hate back lol.

Side note you see the new club? Combine that with yumcax one and you actually get a bit better than atinian at the cost of /nin... shame nin stances don't work subbed

[Fwahm]

Magic Accuracy Skill stat only works on mainhand, no?

[haruhigumi]

I think it's going to greatly vary on the mob, one of the main reason people use Stone 1 a lot at say cololization reives is because with the +195 or more Magic Damage they get on top of the Stone1's base damage of 10, they can just keep nuking away around 900-1,000 per cast with very fast recast and only about 4mp per cast (less if you're a sch). As opposed to getting a marginally higher amount of damage with Stone 3 or 4 in the same amount of time but consuming significantly more MP.

Also when the low tier nukes are buffed up that way, it can serve as a level of dispersed hate control when you have a large party or alliance of BLMs on a NM while still providing some damage.

And Besides, your MAB still goes into effect on it, making MAB much more effective on low tier nukes than they used to be.

I personally love having a MDmg stack for Helix spells, since I can make Geohelix DoT 1k/tic on a mob, since as you know the initial damage is repeated.

[dasva]

Magic Accuracy Skill stat only works on mainhand, no?

acc yes. dmg no

[Fwahm]

Then you'd have big problems with landing nukes when dual wielding clubs on anything harder than reives.

[dasva]

Then you'd have big problems with landing nukes when dual wielding clubs on anything harder than reives.

New club has Magic Accuracy skill +215 which is more than atinian.... Hell even tama is barely behind baqil

[Treize Kordero]

For dual wielding wands with /nin I'd say it would be better to use Eminent Wand ("Magic Atk. Bonus"+14 Magic Damage+111) + Mes'yohi Rod ("Magic Atk. Bonus"+16 Magic Damage+124) for more Magic Damage.

Viable option for say BLM and GEO. It would be nice if SE would allow equipping 2 one handed weapons without DW trait.

Mainhand Mes'yohi for more Magic Acc Skill

[dasva]

Shit totally didn't realize eminent wand lol.