Loltarupld with enmity issues

[Nagatharu]

/poke everyone

Um so here is the prob :
My 3 main jobs are mages and I maxed enmity- merits.
I had the idea of lvling loltarupld. So I am 61.

I lose hate every now and then. I thought it was because of colibris (several tanks told me that colibris = enmity issues). But I found out I also have issues on Eruca.

I don't understand how and why. I flash-voke @ start, sometimes flash again mid-fight, voke every 30 sec, defender all the time, SB + voke when it's up, I use sentinel when hate goes around, I spam cures... but I can't hold hate.

I thought that HB mantle + AF would make up for enmity-.

What should I do BG please ? ;_;
The options are : improve gear / give up pld / change hate routine / whatever.
Cancelling merits is not an option. ><

[alphacat]

Give up on pld. Really.

With max enmity merit, it means you'll be holding hate like a nin who doesn't spam ninjitsu. Quite frankly, you shouldn't have touched enmity merits with a stick. You probably need to get someone to do the 1st provoke -> sata thing that ninjas do. Since you don't want to lower it, you can keep taking it to 75 (you don't be using pld in any type of event, since you won't be able to hold hate) and gimp your PT on the way.

Cruel but true.

[Shuemue]

Fuck Defender, eat meat, do some damage, take a little more damage, get extra mileage from your cures.

[Stelaereous]

Be a better paladin. Figure out a routine that works for you. If you're losing hate you're:
A) Taking too much damage (Shield skill capped? does you gear suck? eating tacos?)
B) Not provoking and flashing every time it is up (/recast macros, use them every time they're up, make sure you have a mage that's not lazy and hastes you for flash recast.)
C) Not curing enough/using abilities effectively (Cure IV ONRY. Don't use anything else, Cure IV hate is ridiculous. Use your abilities when you lose hate, try and stick to no more than 1 a fight, this is a nice pace. Usually leaves you with 1 a fight + an extra for an emergency)
D) You're too low for your area/party. Don't take invites where you're the lowest in the party.

Other than that, make sure your gear doesn't suck. Don't wear lollifebelt, etc. etc. Vermillion/Parade Gorget between mobs for MP. Taru Paladins are some of the best at keeping hate due to their mp pool... utilize it.

[Atlasion]

Flash as soon as recast is up. You should have loads of MP, so try keep yourself cured as much as possible.

Or you could just go all out on DD gear, sub NIN and only party with NINs and WARs.

[Fridell]

I dont think the merits are the problem but who knows.
Im currently leveling NIN with max enmity decrease lol.

[Minions]

In the past year or two they added TONS of enmity gear for all levels... vs. the wopping 0 enmity gear below lvl 50 that they use to have (except lol1enmity grudge sword). Dash sash lv1 (+2 enmity) Cache-Nez lvl1 (+2 enmity) Enchantment Enmity capes, Enmity Sushi's, Enmity rings.... If you cant find enough enmity to cancel out your -4 enmity merits, I don't know what to tell you. There are plenty of gear choices at any given level. When i leveled paladin I chose to wear Rival Ribbon over AF head, and normally (w/ vc + resting gear) could get full mp back before the next fight. Of course this is way back in the day, so I used the ribbon for the mp boost. There is nothing wrong with bringing extra enmity gear to a party and taking off pieces in preference for something out if you see you are holding hate fine. Not every party situation will be the same.

[Fng]

You can also cure IV people that take damage to help getting hate back.

[Osede]

another point is, how is your DD doing... like war spam rampage at the beginning of fight and spam another one again at the mid of fight..


and hm.... lvl 61 fighting eruca in mountain zhaoylm? maybe the lvl is abit too low...

just assume that i'm believe you did use cure IV on your DD who took damage too. (but i know that nowadays there are alots of DD that simply going all out, not even care about maintaining hates or sharing hate etc...)

[superfob]

Well I recently got my lolpld to 66 for Maat Fight, and went the DD route which held hate solid til after 55. After 55-60, I "might" lose hate for a sec to a well geared (and using food) melee. After 60 I started to lose hate more in general and it didn't help having to tank w/o food vs colbiri.

Learn to save your spike hate abilities for when the mob turns. Sometimes you'll get the RNG/WAR shoot barrage/WS at the beginning of fights, or MNK/WARs 2hr for fun. Having haste helps A TON for flash timer and hits for hate in general. Make sure if you have a RDM or WHM that you're getting hasted over melees.

You should be able to hold hate for at least 50% of the fight and let the DDers tear it out afterwards. Just have cover ready if the mob isn't dying quickly. Colbiri are tough because TP and food helps hold hate if you can put out decent numbers on Vorpal.

Granted I ended up doing PLD/NIN 64-66.

[riddaraan]

As people have stated, go all out for damage. I don't know why, but it took us Paladins a couple years to learn that part of the reason NIN's held hate so well was because they focused on damage.

Good luck!

[Judai]

First problem, you said lolTaruPLD. Taru's can fcking own at PLD. You will need work on your Enmity more then most Taru's and DD might be an ok route to try as well. Just keep working on it and find what works. When I lvld PLD I only DD'd in a few JP pts, just maxed Enmity, Shield and used a ton of MP to cure people. Couple times I was in JP pts as PLD/NIN and did DD as well as main healed.

[alphacat]

I don't know why, but it took us Paladins a couple years to learn that part of the reason NIN's held hate so well....

Nin hold hate well? Which world do you live in?

[Judai]

I don't know why, but it took us Paladins a couple years to learn that part of the reason NIN's held hate so well....

Nin hold hate well? Which world do you live in?

The one where NINs know how to do their job? I personally rarely lose hate on NIN, even with damn good WARs and such. It's a mix between the fact that I actually swap in Enmity for hate and do some damn good DD on top of it. I usually outparse the melee DDs in my parties when I take pick-up parties.

btw, OT, if you are jst losing hate to WARs and other DDs spamming WSs at the start or RNGs on Birds, stop worrying. It's simply your DD not letitng you tank.

[Nagatharu]

/poke

Thanks guys for your answers.

About gear : I think it's decent. Gluttony, shield (skill uncapped), chain that gives eva-parry-shield skill+, HP earrings, HQ VIT rings and belt. I have V. Cloak I use when MP is getting low but I'd rather stack enmity from AF. I thought I would stack enmity afterwards, like Macua+1, Hades earrings, Hercule's Ring. But, well, maybe I already suck.

I don't have the gil and inv space to build a DD set that I'll only use for xp. If PLD-DD is the only way out, I guess I have to give up.

So here is my hate routine :
- HB mantle + taco
- flash-voke
- /recast on voke > voke
- defender at all times
- flash again mid-fight if possible
- SB + voke when I see the DD WS or the healer spam cures
- I spam cures, esp. cure IV
- when a DD grabs hate : voke / flash. Nothing happens? Sentinel.
- Sentinel, voke, flash not up? another DD grabs hate : I spam cure IV on him.

And I can't frigging hold hate. /fumaru.
That's why I'm about to give up. I don't see what's wrong.

Only thing some guys told me is to save voke for immediate use after WS. But even when I do that, I can't grab hate again against a Rampage or Raging Fists or Sidewinder.



Another idea is that since ToAU release, people go for big numbers, even in the first few seconds, so hate control has become impossible. And I've noticed that often, I see DD's use WS even when I don't have a firm hold on the monster.

Last thing : the Eruca I xp on are in Bhaflau.

[Mosh]

You have to keep in mind that the DDs in your party, assuming they do good damage, are the ones who decide to let you tank. It's a team effort. If a WAR does a 600 Rampage in the beginning, or a RNG doing a similar Slugwinder, you're probably going to lose hate. Your gear and hate routine seems fine but might want to swap to Drone Earring + Drone/Buckler instead of HP when you move past Eruca, for the higher shield procs.

I'm only 38 at the moment, however, but I don't lose hate unless the healer/BLM/DD gets retarded (Spamming spells, not giving me room to heal myself, WS at start, etc). I have 0 enmity merits as well, never going to touch them. But yeah, make sure your healers are giving you room to heal yourself. The only other thing I can think of, is using Berserk with a WS or when Sentinel is up. Cancel it if you take too much damage of course though..

[Diametric]

Your sig says you have RDM leveled; do you have any sword merits? Those would help your hate and since you don't have any other melee jobs leveled you wouldn't need to cancel any other weapon merits. And if you decide to do the PLD-DD route later on, you'll have a head start. I know another poster said to use CURE IV onry, and in a perfect would I'd agree, but that's not always possible. If your healers don't like letting you drop below white HP (especially on Erucas, with their breath move), using CURE IV for only 112 HP healed is no more effective than using CURE II. Use whatever cure will get you to your max HP, and don't be afraid to ask your healers to back off a bit if they're healing you too much too soon in the fight. (Then again, you're a taru; you probably don't need to budget your MP as much as other races do). Also, Sentinel increases the enmity created by any moves you use while Sentinel is in effect, meaning Sentinel + CURE IV generates more hate than just CURE IV by itself will. If you have a haubergeon (or can borrow one) I'd use that over the Gallant Surcoat, the DEF is almost the same and the extra ACC and ATK will probably be more useful than 4 VIT and 2 ENM, especially if you're eating tacos. 4 VIT won't help any if the mob isn't attacking you, after all, and with all the other gear available to you with enmity on it the loss of 2 shouldn't be that bad. Good luck!

[superfob]

I've alternated between turtle setup (sounds like what your using) and the DD setup. DD setup has always held hate better and made fights faster. The gear I used were:

Weapon: Glut/master shield/RK - master for vt mobs
Head: Sipathi Turban (+str and agi one)
Neck: PCC/Parade - PCC usually if I have too much MP and WS macro
Earring: Buckler/Assault
Body: Hauby/Vermy - Vermy while not fighting
Hands: Pallas (for the HP really)
Ring: Sattiva/Jaeger
Back: Amemet+1
Belt: Life belt
Legs: RK
Feet: AF1

With ToaU, more people chain VTs, so it makes it harder for turtle setups to work in that fast kill, fast chain environment. VT mobs compared to IT will hit you lighter (sometimes I won't even get to cure myself once with flash/shield blocks/eager healers) and allow your DDs to hit them harder and more accurately.

I've been able to put out 300-600 vorpals with no food, and you surprisingly will tp very quickly with shield mastery and some decent ACC.

[Credos]

Give up on pld. Really.

With max enmity merit, it means you'll be holding hate like a nin who doesn't spam ninjitsu. Quite frankly, you shouldn't have touched enmity merits with a stick. You probably need to get someone to do the 1st provoke -> sata thing that ninjas do. Since you don't want to lower it, you can keep taking it to 75 (you don't be using pld in any type of event, since you won't be able to hold hate) and gimp your PT on the way.

Cruel but true.

Enmity merits aren't that important. 4 is not going to make a huge difference.

@OP: keep in mind that a lot of moves that these mobs do (Incinerate, Pecking flurry) hit you pretty hard so that could also have something to do with it.

[Sylphet]

4 enmity will not have a noticable effect on your ability to hold hate.

You seem to be focusing on 100% defense and tanking and not on DD. If you have the money PLD can be a fair DD (this is XP we're talking about not end game where you won't to jack to anything). That can be enough to push your hate a bit over where it is right now. Being taru you should have the MP available to spam cure yourself if you take some hard hits from DD gear.

Also, from what you posted, you're not using all of your hate tools. You keep Defender up all the time.. You're forgetting that even if you don't want to do any damage. you can use things like Berserk and later Warcry, and even Holy Circle as hate tools and cancel them immediately if you don't want to deal with the loss in defence.

There's not so much you can do if the melees in your party want to open up the fight with a WS. ToAU mobs tend to die really quickly which is why a DD PLD tends to offer more to a party than one who tries to tank. You can easily change up gear sets and pop Defender/cancel Berserk or whatever if you are getting hit too hard.

I think you just need to play around some more with everything you can do with the job! Taru PLDs can be very good in XP due to huge MP pools. gl~