Debuffs - How to Improve Their Effects?

[Rionel]

First things first: please forgive me if this has been posted before. The information about them is scattered around so thinly, it's hard to find any concrete information about it in one place. I apologize if this is a wasted post here and give my gratitude if confirmation for my questions are made. ^^;

I'm asking about this since my friend is leveling SCH, so I was interested in confirming all these debuff effects and their workings. I've never actually thought about it so technically, so part of this is also just out of curiosity. This is all I have so far:

Edited with new information (Thank you all again for posting)

Paralyze:
- Accuracy affected by Enfeebling skill.
- Ice Staff helps improve the accuracy.
- Potency (procs of paralyze) are affected by caster's MND and the target's MND. More MND, more chances of paralyze proc.
- Duration is dependent on resists

Blind:
- Accuracy affected by Enfeebling skill.
- Dark Staff improves accuracy.
- Potency (amount of accuracy deduction) is affected by the caster's INT VS the target's MND. More INT, more accuracy deduction.
- The maximum amount of accuracy blind can deduct is -30 (Thank you, Osede).


Slow:
- Accuracy affected by Enfeebling skill.
- Earth Staff improves accuracy.
- Potency (Amount of slow%) is affected by the caster's MND and the target's MND. More MND, more slow%.
- Maximum amount of slow% is 25-ish. http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/downl...=881&mode=view

Silence:
- Accuracy affected by Enfeebling skill.
- Wind Staff improves accuracy.
- Duration of Silence is affected by how resisted it is.
- MND adds more accuracy.

Gravity:
- Accuracy affected by Enfeebling skill.
- Wind Staff adds accuracy.
- Duration (Maximum 90 seconds) is affected by how resisted it was.
- Potency (amount of movement speed down) is relatively fixed.
- INT adds more accuracy.
- On notorious monsters, they build resistance to Gravity if casted continuously.

? Inflicts -10 evasion if successful? -evasion can be increased in anyway or is it always -10?

Sleep:
- Affected by Enfeebling skill.
- Dark Staff improves accuracy.
- Duration is maximum 1 minute, but resists affect the duration.
- INT adds more accuracy.

Dispel:
- Affected by Enfeebling skill.
- Dark Staff improves accuracy.
- Is extremely accurate except against dark based monsters and other special cases.

? Any stat that can influence Dispel's accuracy even more?

Drain/Aspir:
- Accuracy and Potency affected by Dark Skill.
- Dark Staff improves accuracy and potency.
- Unaffected by Magic Attack Bonus.

And lastly... does magic bursting any of these make them any better, accuracy and/or potency wise?

Thank you in advance to people that respond. /bow.

P.S. If there is anything wrong with the information listed here, please be sure to point it out! Accurate information is the best kind.

Edit: Maybe these could be used for BG Wiki's descriptions if that's possible? Credit should go to the people who answered my thread, not me. ^^; Thank you~

[Eaglestrike]

The only thing I am absolutely 100% sure on is that Earth Staff does not increase the potency of Slow.

[Kaeko]

Slow
There is a very precise Curve for Slow and Slow II (and it's 3 levels). The potency is based on MND (more specifically, the difference between the caster's MND and the enemy's MND), but only to an extent. Each one has a minimum amount of % granted and a maximum cap granted. I believe Slow I caps at 30% and Slow II LVL3 somewhere around 38%. Not sure how much MND difference it took to cap it. I believe the testing was done in Ballista. Maybe someone can find the curve.

Also, Carnage Elegy is just straigh 50% and it's 50% no matter what you do. Massacre Elegy is 100%, but only some mobs get this. I believe when COR came out, if you Earth Shot'd Carnage, you got Massacre, making COR+BRD really broken endgame. I think they fixed that a long time ago though.

Sleep
The resist on this works a bit like elemental nukes - it resists in partial, set amounts. For instance, a full Sleep I lands for 1 minute. A partial sleep can last 30 seconds, 15 seconds, etc. - the point is it is a set % of the full landing time. Sleep I cannot just land for say 45 seconds - the best partial resist you can get is 50% (like nukes). I suspect this timing thing works with Silence and Gravity as well.

Drain/Aspir
This is hard to test - I think majority of people who have these will say it's based on just Dark Magic Skill and probably Magic Accuracy. It's hard to test if INT/MND do anything. MAB does not though. Most people macro just Dark Skill, Magic Acc, and Haste on these gear-wise.

Dispel
Certain things can resist this like Flayers - this is not due to lack of Enfeebling Skill, but because of elemental affiliation. Dark spells just dont work well on flayers. Finale, the light version of Dispel, works on Flayers. Bahamut also resists Dispel and this is due to skill level. On most things, you're right, Dispel will land just fine regardless of skill. I think of it like stun - 99% of the time it just lands regardless of skill, but it can matter on some things.

[Merkury]

Blind Potency based on INT not MND, and Gravity acc is INT based not MND as well. Basic rule of thumb as far as acc goes is whether or not its a spell whm get or blm. Gravity being rdm only but its same icon as blm spells so INT based. Only 3 spells you can increase potency on though are Para, Slow and Blind.

[Vigilia]

Slow
Not sure how much MND difference it took to cap it. I believe the testing was done in Ballista. Maybe someone can find the curve.

Attached.

[SephYuyX]

We still need a definite answer on Drain/Aspir with D.Pole vs Pluto. I've always seen better numbers with D.Pole, others as well, but there are other others who say Pluto is better.

[Zoot]

Blind Potency based on INT not MND, and Gravity acc is INT based not MND as well. Basic rule of thumb as far as acc goes is whether or not its a spell whm get or blm. Gravity being rdm only but its same icon as blm spells so INT based. Only 3 spells you can increase potency on though are Para, Slow and Blind.

I believe that those are not facts. I've honestly been too busy with finals to go around silencing the same mob 100 times in different gear sets, but I'm just sayin'.

Just because something is black magic based doesn't mean it is effected by INT, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if even Gravity was effected by MND. I believe tests have been done recently that lean heavily toward Blind being casters mnd vs. mob int.

The good old paralyze tests.

Summary, elemental staves add a good deal of accuracy but no potency. MND seems to add both potency and duration.

[Khalil]

A NIN w/ a Terra/Earth Staff just increases his accuracy, it doesn't have an effect on the potency of the spell.

[Tricen]

Slow
Not sure how much MND difference it took to cap it. I believe the testing was done in Ballista. Maybe someone can find the curve.

Attached.

Why does slowIIlv3 cap at 50MND?

[Olo401]

I imagine Sleep and Repose are interchangeable - just change accordingly between enfeebling & divine for accuracy, and INT & MND for potency.

I did some messing around this weekend with Repose in Garden of Ru'Hmet. Divine skill is capped so I went with Apollo's Staff & a MND gear build, and everything I cast Repose on slept for a full 90 seconds (except the Qn'Zdei over near the elevator to Empyreal Paradox.. they slept for like 15 seconds then fully resisted a recast).

[Zoot]

A NIN w/ a Terra/Earth Staff just increases his accuracy, it doesn't have an effect on the potency of the spell.

I don't believe anything does, it seems to be a static 18.5%

Gonna post these here since I think he did a really good job!

Ballista Test #1

Application

Caps, Filament Hold and Quick Draw

More Application

[Suiram]

We still need a definite answer on Drain/Aspir with D.Pole vs Pluto. I've always seen better numbers with D.Pole, others as well, but there are other others who say Pluto is better.

There are several threads on this argument, but in summary, here's where we're at so far on this (not definite at all lol): People using D. Pole post Aspir numbers that are higher than what is mathematically possible with Pluto's. People using D. Pole also claim they get higher average Drains/Aspirs with D. Pole but provide no parses. Some people who don't own D. Pole claim that there are parses somewhere showing that Pluto's averages better than D. Pole but refuse to post links to them. Every page or two someone posts saying they've seen an Aspir that exceeds the cap with Pluto's, then ignores the thread when challenged to provide screenshots. Everyone agrees that even if D. Pole is better, it's likely not better enough to be worth the inventory space (although I guess it could be now).

[Vigilia]

Slow
Not sure how much MND difference it took to cap it. I believe the testing was done in Ballista. Maybe someone can find the curve.

Attached.

Why does slowIIlv3 cap at 50MND?

I've been wondering the same, but that's the graph that's been posted here on BG many times before. I don't know if there's a more complete version?

[Septimus]

To the best of my knowledge.

Paralyze and Slow- accuracy based off of Enfeebling skill, appropriate staff adds accuracy. Potency is a caster MND vs. target MND comparison. Changes in duration are due to partial resists.

Blind- accuracy based off of Enfeebling skill, Dark/Pluto's Staff adds accuracy. Potency is caster INT vs. target MND comparison (See this post.) Changes in duration are due to partial resists.

Silence- accuracy based off of Enfeebling skill, Wind/Auster's Staff adds accuracy. Potency is fixed. Changes in duration are due to partial resists. As revealed by Square in a recent interview, MND adds some amount of extra accuracy.

Gravity- accuracy based off of Enfeebling skill, Wind/Auster's Staff adds accuracy. Potency seems to be fixed. Changes in duration (90 seconds maximum) are due to partial resists, Notorious Monsters gain resistance over time and will eventually cut maximum durations. As revealed by Square in a recent interview, INT adds some amount of extra accuracy.

Sleep- accuracy based off of Enfeebling skill, Dark/Pluto's Staff adds accuracy. Potency is fixed. Changes in duration are due to partial resists. As revealed by Square in a recent interview, INT adds some amount of extra accuracy.

Dispel- accuracy based off of Enfeebling skill, Dark/Pluto's Staff adds accuracy. The most accurate enfeebling spell, only mobs with a strong dark resistance (undead, bats), resistance to all enfeebles (Shijin?), specific immunity (soulflayers), or a magic shield (magic pots) will yield resists. (Although you will sometimes get a freak resist because there is no such thing as perfect accuracy in the game.)

Drain and Aspir- accuracy and potency based off of Dark skill, Dark/Pluto's Staff adds accuracy and potency. Ineffective against the undead. Magic Attack Bonus does not add potency. Does not seem to be modified by INT.

[Osede]

Dispel- accuracy based off of Enfeebling skill, Dark/Pluto's Staff adds accuracy. The most accurate enfeebling spell, only mobs with a strong dark resistance (undead, bats), resistance to all enfeebles (Shijin?), specific immunity (soulflayers), or a magic shield (magic pots) will yield resists. (Although you will sometimes get a freak resist because there is no such thing as perfect accuracy in the game.)

I'm believe skeleton type which has high dark resistence resist dispell occasionally.

For the Slow II cap at 50MND stuff, will it be the MND difference?

[Kyreth]

Think so. Slow becomes more potent as the difference between your MND vs. mob MND increases.

(if you love your debuffers, ABS-MND and/or Shock please.)

[Naver]

Sleep is an Enfeebling skill, not Dark as stated in the OP. Unless you were asking a question, in that case I gave you an answer.

[Heie]

We still need a definite answer on Drain/Aspir with D.Pole vs Pluto. I've always seen better numbers with D.Pole, others as well, but there are other others who say Pluto is better.

Just from my personal exp. with D.Pole vs Pluto's.

It reminds me of the Selene bow vs Ebow thread.
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=25756

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2339/bowser0.jpg


Basically put Pluto's where ebow is and D.pole where Selene is lol.
Doesn't break down like that of course but I have a lot more consistant drain/aspir with Pluto's

D.Pole will spike higher. But over all you will do better with Pluto.

[Rionel]

Thank you everyone for all your responses! I really appreciate it a lot.

[Ambir]

Slow
Not sure how much MND difference it took to cap it. I believe the testing was done in Ballista. Maybe someone can find the curve.

Attached.

Why does slowIIlv3 cap at 50MND?

I've been wondering the same, but that's the graph that's been posted here on BG many times before. I don't know if there's a more complete version?

The graph is basically correct, but isn't complete, (or completely accurate), so take some of the data with a grain of salt.

Slow II 3 merits doesn't cap at +50MND, any more than Slow does. There just isn't anymore data on the graph (for reference, Slow, Slow II (1 merit) and Slow II (2 merits) all cap at the same MND difference (which is ~+81MND given that a Level -1 mob has a MND of 0 from memory from the original JP work)).