Ninja, Damage, and holding hate.

[Freijah]

Hello BG, I was wondering if I might get some help regarding my Ninja, which is about to hit 50. My only 75 is RDM, and Ninja is the first job I levelled beyond the subjob-mark besides it. My problem seems to be holding hate against any half-compitent DD, especially with some much time 'wasted' casting Ninjitsu whilst they are all TPing and throwing out JAs and WSing. Getting TA'd helps, but is still no garuantee of keeping hate. I want to put off leveling it for abit so I can afford decent 50 gear and beyond. Not keeping hate is frustating, makes me feel shit, and I like doing a good job. Ninja is otherwise a really fun job. It's why I kept going after 37, not to mention the AF is sexy. But it's odd how parties with newer and gimpy DD's seem to go much better than ones with experienced players, simpley because I hold hate 100% and would probably parse best. This isn't how things should be. x.x

Right now I look something like;
AF/AF - I'm not sure exactly when and what to change in here. Katana stocks on the AH are kinda thin, I'm guessing offhand a Babuso + Something?
Emp. Pin - Away from O.Hat and swap-ins, when is this ever full-time replaced?
Spike / Willpower (for ichi Ninjitsu) - Other than a PCC what can I do?
Dodge/Dodge - Need Drone/Drone? I thought there'd be more evasion in Dodges, so school me in Drone/Drone or otherwise.
Brigadine - I'm guessing I can just pick up anything inbetween Scorp/AF that works here. Once I get there, Scorp if I cant hit, AF if I can? Something like that?
Iron Ram Sollerats - I'm thinking Horomusha Kote would be great.
Rajas/Snipers - I dropped a Tamas for the Rajas, I had to get 37WAR before I started on NIN, plus for NIN itself. Will I ever get my Tamas back? Hehe.
Nomad's
Swordbelt - I need to farm up a Survival Belt I guess, plus I'm sure there's something better that goes here? This was kinda a budget option admitedly.
Iron Ram Breeches - I really think Nokizaru Hakama is a great option, it's what I'm after right now for 50, unless people with more knowledge than me do not think they will be worth the gil/last for enough levels

I eat Dorado Sushi which pushes IT++ XP mobs to 'Low Evasion', as well as the other boosts, emnity esp. Pretty sure this is my best food option? Right now I am using the ele wheel, throwing it out pretty much every fight. This is not only a strain on my gil and inventory, but it's alot of time taken away from TPing. The damage can be pretty decent, without any special gear swapped in whatsoever, but it doesn't seem that effective for hate tbh.

The main problem is hitting harder, it seems. Yes, by the time I am top-end for a camp, keeping hate is not a problem (stuff dies so quick you can tank on Provoke), but really when I first hit the range for a zone, everything goes all gimp again, like fucking beetles, never miss, resist everything, and I'm hitting for 0-5 at times, even tho' my gear seems half-decent. All told, basicly is it worth trying to keep up as a DD for emnity, or is there another method that I should be using? The ele wheel seems bleh, unless you have experience that fully gearing for it would really work?

It's almost like... I know what needs to be done, throw more gils on it. But this is my first experience with melee beyond 37, when gear becomes that much more important. I guess I'm just looking for comfirmation that the gil will be well spent, I'm heading in the right direction, and I'm not a total eeediot.

Edit; Oh also, I wanted to mention, I have /drk, Suppa, Senju and peices like that waiting, and I kind of know what I'm aiming for in regards to NIN75 and really looking foward to it. I just don't want to limp there taking the invites simpley because people are desperate for a tank. 'Some people are in a rush to suck, others...' ~ You know the rest.

[Vail]

I eat Dorado Sushi which pushes IT++ XP mobs to 'Low Evasion', as well as the other boosts, emnity esp. Pretty sure this is my best food option? Right now I am using the ele wheel, throwing it out pretty much every fight. This is not only a strain on my gil and inventory, but it's alot of time taken away from TPing. The damage can be pretty decent, without any special gear swapped in whatsoever, but it doesn't seem that effective for hate tbh.

this is the part where I got lost, because if you're exping on high VT/low IT mobs, I don't think anything you can do will out damge "the wheel"

I leveled my nin post 2hand update, and I'm sure that's changed things abit: but honestly if you're really using the wheel you should be holding hate especially pre-50

your katana damage will suck no matter what you do until 59-61 (Hauby/Jin/lv61 HQ katanas) really until they katana damage is quite low and your attack speed isn't really where it's at just yet: Blade: Chi is nice but once you get hauby and better katanas backing up Jin it'll make Chi look like child's play.

[Freijah]

My problem could well be priorities, in that case. IE: I should be using the Ele spells right off/after SATA, prehaps I am using them too late, which is causing me to have already fallen behind the 'Emnity race'.

[Zsky]

First of all, ninja is one of those jobs that are really dependent on gear, I mean really. It's the reason why this job is so expensive not because of ninjustu tools, but its equipment.

Second of all, evasion will do s*** now that you're reaching the toau exp areas. Parties are going to start spamming WS's even more since parties will be more melee-orientated, so your best option is to start making yourself more DD-like instead of wearing hybrid equips with evasion/acc or such. Elemental wheel wasn't terrible damage @ 40's but its damage dies out at the 50's, so I suggest to give up on that now. About the emperor hairpin, pretty much stuck with it until ohat.

Ninja is an annoying job to properly execute in a traditional party since the hate balance is against you. Never mind our A- skill and poor selection of equipment in the 50's range. My opinion at your phase is to start gathering gil and start buying DD equipment, that will help a lot in creating hate. I leveled ninja to 75 with the belief that evasion+ gear was old-school and useless since you won't have the hate to tank and that wearing full DD set is far more effective since you help kill the mobs faster while keeping up with hate with better DoT and slightly higher WS damage. Dorado sushi is ok, I used sole sushi for the str+5 bonus myself.

If the gil is an issue, start saving up and get some cheap DD equips. Some examples include hauby, bomb core, amemit+1, chiv. chain (works fine for low-budgets)

Granted, I'm discussing more towards the 60's range instead of 50's. Only because it gets worse there- not being able to eat sushi for colibris, puks is definitely annoying to tank as nin, aydeewa spiders w/ slow overwriting your haste, etc. It's just part of the job, everyone that made it to 75 knows these experiences well, unless they had an experienced static w/ brd.

Anyways, my point : DD nin = more damage meaning more hate which means more exp. however some ninja's feel skeptical to wear hauby/okote full-time but I did just that, even without a bard in a PT. Didn't have any issues, but if you still hesitate, then start learning to macro-swap for WS, and wear scorp harness for TPing, I didn't find AF body practical in the lvl range when I got it. Alot of people will probably agree that AF body is best used with stacked haste which isnt accessible until the 70's.

Sorry for the long post, but it pretty much sums up my experiences and I hope the OP finds this insightful. Good luck!

EDIT: Forgot to mention, I'd advise keeping debuff tools stocked, and using them on each pulls, especially slow/blind. RDM's sometimes have the tendency to get their slow resisted if you camp IT's. Don't bother w/ jubaki tho, impractical to cast it mid-fight. With haste and slow landing, shadows shouldn't be difficult to keep up if you know how to count and proficient with Ni>ichi casting with DD setup.

[Thorny]

AF/AF - Yoto+1 x2, until 61

Ammo - You didn't mention, get bailathorn at 55, upgrade to bomb core at 63, should get bomblet at 70 but if you're ok being a sushi nin you can stick to core

Emp. Pin - Walkure Mask, can replace with super ribbon or voyager sallet

Spike / Willpower (for ichi Ninjitsu) - Suck it up and get a PCC, you have the best gil-making job at 75. If you're really that broke, camp it.. nin is acc starved and the only better piece until 75 is ancient torque.

Dodge/Dodge - Beetle+1/Tortoise+1/Spike

Brigadine - Jujitsu Gi now, Hauby at 59 if you can't hit, AF if you're using sushi and getting madrigal(SH is level 57-58 only for exp)

Iron Ram Sollerats - I'm thinking Horomusha Kote would be great. Sollerets are shoes so I don't know what you're using for gloves, ochiudo's kote are better than horomusha but horo are okay for a budget nin.

Rajas/Snipers - Sniper/Sniper, go ahead and drop rajas for tamas back unless you're going to do serious soloing on nin(the acc outweighs what rajas gives, though the subtle blow is great for hard solos)

Nomad's - High Breath Mantle or Jaguar Mantle until Amemet+1.. personally I'd go with high breath but some use jaguar.

Swordbelt - Life belt, swift at 50. After swift, macro life belt for WS.

Iron Ram Breeches - Republic subligar, RK pants at 55 if the subligar model bothers you.

Iron Ram Sollerats - Fuma kyahan, non-negotiable. Lowering ni recast is invaluable, since to hold hate you do need to cripple evasion in favor of DD gear.

The only thing evasion nins dodge in exp is tanking, you need to favor DD gear to have any chance against a well equipped 2h DD, with or without a thief.

[Tricen]

I never bought the ele wheel, never needed to. I kept hate fine majority of the time. Spike damage is kind of balls sandwhich for NIN, but I always did decent dmg and kept the mob on me. Albeit I had top notch HQ gear....

[[Cookies]]

I never bought the ele wheel, never needed to. I kept hate fine majority of the time. Spike damage is kind of balls sandwhich for NIN, but I always did decent dmg and kept the mob on me. Albeit I had top notch HQ gear....

...whereas the DDs in your party did not.

[Freijah]

Sorry the hands are Iron Ram Mufflers

What's quite funny and now seems rather insightful now is; I static'd through this game when I first started, with a couple of returning players. One was a NIN. Completly 'oldskool' in approach, pre-ToAU I guess, very rigid about how the game should be played, set in his ways, let's say.

The sorts of item you list, Chiv, Ame+1, another Snipers, they're no massive sweat for me to farm up, not on Cerberus' economy and not since most of my Gil comes from Vendors. Those items I knew I needed to get anyway. It's just a case of putting aside my excitement of leveling NIN as best I can, to farm. Alot of it is the simple pleasure of having the AF, since I've been running around for a couple years RDM onry. And I've chopped and changed my plans of what to level next through about every job in the game.

Things like the Huab I was not so sure about and O.Kote, since I thought -Eva was just plain wrong. I think the theme here is you can't really balance or tiptoe around approaching 'something like' a DD, it's all or nothing. And I'm only hesitant about stuff like PCC cos it's such a massive wedge on one item, alas...

[Atlasion]

My NIN is only 62 at the moment. I've been using damage to keep hate most of the time. This can work well, however I've been finding it more difficult recently. This is probably because in my last few parties I've had DDs being higher than me, DDs not knowing how to control damage (SAMs mainly) and RDMs who can't keep haste on (and one who didn't even seem to have refresh).

My gear is aimed towards DDing. Hauby, O Kotes, Swift Belt, Walkure Mask, fang(lol) earrings etc. I tend to TP in AF Body a lot though. Unless you're the lowest lvl in the party, you should be fine. I never did a full elemental wheel when I was lower. Tended to spam a few spells though, and found them pretty useful for hate.

[Ehran]

Things like the Huab I was not so sure about and O.Kote, since I thought -Eva was just plain wrong. I think the theme here is you can't really balance or tiptoe around approaching 'something like' a DD, it's all or nothing. And I'm only hesitant about stuff like PCC cos it's such a massive wedge on one item, alas...

I used to think the same way...

If you're leveling NIN for exp or merits, pile on Haste and Attack. Provoke isn't really a good hate tool, it's a courtesy to the sleepers in your party.

If you really wanted to be a swell guy for your parties in the 50's you can macro in certain pieces of +Enmity (Mermaid Ring) gear into your provoke macro but this doesn't become super effective until you're mid to late 50's where you can really pile it on. After level 60, the elemental wheel starts to lose its appeal because your katana strikes starts to become more powerful and the the ever glorious Blade: Jin will take you into the promised land.

I leveled NIN pre-ToAU, using a SC > MB party set up all the way to level 75. There was always a first voke, and a THF (or /THF post 60) for TA at the start of each fight. You can still level like this, and it will still get you exp, and you will feel great about how well you hold hate as a NIN. The problem is the other 5 people in your party will hate you because it's easier now to take 10 steps outside of Whitegate and slap birds around for an hour, instead of waiting for that stupid rock in Kuftal Tunnel to disappear, or (heaven forbid) dragging your party past the Moongate.

P.S. http://wiki.bluegartr.com/Hototogisu Is a really nice katana for a while, and it would be an easy fight for a 75 RDM to solo.

[Tricen]

Eva is bullshit. Horo kotes ftw though. I tank in haub+1 spike earrings etc. Staticing with a BRD also really helps, anything with elegy can be tanked easy as fuck.

[Freijah]

If you can spare the time, it'd be helpful to see what you have 50-60, sure. Beyond that I think I should be on the right track.

Ok, time to rip my TH4bot, uhhh, friend, from his BRD65~ levelling and put some work in.

[isladar]

I've been very appreciative of the last few NIN topics we've had, as I'm in the process of leveling the job as well. What's amusing to me is that while I'm trying to soak up all the information provided, I'm in a completely different boat -- I'm duoing with a NIN friend to 75.

If you get -terribly- frustrated with parties and omgwtfmelee, I cannot recommend solo/duo enough; its relaxing and very enjoyable, even when I fuck up and link the BST with the pet and stand in front of my friend to die, trying to remember the St. Crispen's Day speech from Henry V.

In the case of solo/duo, however, EVA does become viable again, but still build a melee/damage/WS set because until you can hauby/jin/why the fuck don't i have the decent 61 katanas, SC + ninjitsu magicburst will be doing a fair portion of the work.

[ryanjh]

Really, if you can't keep hate on beefed up melee, especially in the mid 50s when Rampage and Slug become a factor, and Rng/Drg get piercing bonus on colibri and you can't eat food, don't worry about it. On certain mobs it's mostly about just soaking up as many shadows as you can before it gets ripped from you for good.

Jin won't be this life-saving WS when you get it, so your options are either wheel spam, or making sure you get all debuffs on the mob to minimize damage taken. Jubaku as soon as the pull gets into range, so that it should be casted and you're ready to voke when the mob gets in range, then pop off your Ni debuffs. Kurayami is a lot of hate, and the less shadows you lose the more hate you have + more time to swing those underwhelming katanas.

[evilpaul]

1) Use a High Breath Mantle until Amemet +1
2) +1 Status katanas until the 70s when you get more/better options.
3) Waist - Switch to Life belt or Swift Belt (the latter makes your life a lot easier)
4) Neck - Switch to Spectacles at 57 if you can't afford a PCC.
5) Body - Switch to Jujisu Gi. Later SH or Hauby depending on what you're fighting and your support. If you have a BRD+Hojo sticks fulltime Hauby. Otherwise switch to SH if your shadows just won't keep up. The "evasion is bullshit" people never tried to tank Erucas on Mount Z with no Elegy, frequently resisted Hojo and /WHM'd Barfira.
6) Use the Elemental Ni spells until 55 or so if you're not fighting Colibri that they kind of suck on.
7) I would use Hojo and Kurayami at the start of fights both for hate and because a Slowed, Blinded mob is much easier to tank and competent DDs should be able to get Ichi up on a Slowed mob that has normal attack speed.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

[isladar]

Why is there so much hate for Jubaku? I know its the only non-Ni debuff NIN gets, but good christ, when it sticks it paralyzes like a motherfucker.

[yrpaine]

1 thing as ninja, you will always lack accuracy, put his at a priority for most spots (other than haste of course). Like above said use life belt if you do not have a swift belt. quick belt is horrible though a lifebelt is better for keeping hate.

As previous post stated, use 2x yoto+1 until 61. the ones which drain hp are horrible and rarely proc and only for small ammounts, the yoto+1 proc at a decent rate and help everyone's damage. The buboso is a waste imo, the sai's are too slow and +parry doesn't help much.

always focus on accuracy and attack for gear. you're really only going to need +eva if your party doesn't have a bard. scorpion harness and haubergeon are both useful, you will find uses for both of these even at 75, they're a good investment.

You will not need rajas unless you're going to level up other melee jobs, ninja accuracy is low and you can use 2x snipers until 75 even for WS because you will want the accuracy.

the level 55 hands for +accuracy and +evasion are decent if you cannot afford the Kote.

Buy melody earrings for when you have a bard, +5 evasion skill x2 is a lot and will let you keep swinging for damage as you're being missed.

1 tip: if mob you're fighting is low hp don't try to kill it with weaponskills, save your tp for the start of the next fight for hate.

[Bakthi]

The only reason I hate Jubaku is because it takes so long to cast. It's like..."Okay, I just cast Utsusemi: Ni; 4 shadows should be enough time to cast Jubaku". Feels like an eternity. I still used it, though, along with the others (except poison), and spammed the wheel until Lesser Colibri, where it was just dead useless.

Many good suggestions already; Jujitsu gi for sure. I offhanded Buboso for a good long while; I'd use it until at least 61. I find it hilarious that Hocho is such a good DD katana (no, I didn't use one).

I leveled my NIN with LS people (MNK, DRK, RNG), and on colibri they just destroyed my hate. It happens. Spamming the wheel did me right until ~54, I cried until 60, and then I was basically okay again (with DD gear) as long as I could eat food. I actually gained a lot of levels on pets and imps with a party of 3-4.

[evilpaul]

Why is there so much hate for Jubaku? I know its the only non-Ni debuff NIN gets, but good christ, when it sticks it paralyzes like a motherfucker.

I like it, it's just not going to help you keep hate.

[isladar]

Ah, I suppose I didn't think of enmity; again I'm trying to keep two parallel lines of thought with regards to NIN: What I Should Be Doing Were I Partying and Wheee I'm Made Of Duo.

Pulling with Kurayami is a delicious spike right off the bat -- I tend to do Blind - Para - Slow since I can fit Jubaku around my shadow recasts.