DSL Woes

[GentaiShinigami]

This is going to be quite a long post, but I beg anyone that knows something about ADSL to help me out because I'm at a loss. I've done everything I can to fix the situation and ATT's tech's are not doing anything helpful.

So I ordered ATT DSL 6.0mb/s (they offered this plan when I asked what was available), and was of course very happy since I live in the woods and don't have cable ran to the house (father-in-law's house). The next day the tech "drops by" and leaves a note on the door telling me to have them drop me to 1.5mb/s service because I'm too far from the DSLAM. Obviously, that isn't going to fly. I do a lot of heavy downloading (come from a cable 3.0mb/s connection at my parents house), and 1.5mb/s is basically worthless to me. I call him up and he tells me he gets 4.0mb/s at the NID, but think 1.5mb/s would be better for stability. I decline and tell them I'd just like to try out the 6.0 as it is and see what I can get, and will drop if necessary.

All the time on the 6.0 package I am pulling ~2.9mb/s and I am happy with this speed. The connection is inconsistent and I am told I have ~60db uncancelled echo on my line, and that it must be from the security system (which they didn't inform me of when i asked during the sales call). Anyway, I get the filter about a week later finally, and after I install it, and speeds drop from almost 3.0 down to 2.4. Now I'm not DSL expert, but seriously wtf? I call and ask wtf is going on, and ofc no one has a clue, and they send a tech out the next day.

The next day the tech arrives and says that it must be internal wiring causing the problem as he still gets 4.0 outside at the NID, and I still have ~11-16db of uncancelled echo (everything hooked up to the phone line that we know of is filtered now). He recommends dropping to 3.0 and says that will be rock solid and should be capped out in speed. I do that the following day and wait the two days for it to take effect. Shortly after the speed package drop takes effect later the speed is at 3.1mb/s when I check in the modem up from 2.4mb/s. Someone a little later plugged in a directv box to the line w/o a filter and of course the line dropped to .4mb/s. Took a while to find and fix that, but afterwards I was getting ~2900mb/s, but with a fair amount of uncorrected blocks, and had a signal noise margin of ~6-9db downstream (~14 up). The router would lose connection fairly frequently and kick me from XI which was super annoying. After about a day of losing signal frequently I check my modem stats again and notice it's now at 3.1mb/s and is on G.DMT2 Annex L vs G.DMT2+ Annex A.

Once I was sync'd with Annex L I had the perfect connection for 7 days straight with a SNR of ~14db up and ~12db down (fluctuating slightly in both directions), almost no uncorrected blocks, and only ~90k corrected blocks over a week with no signal retrains or connection breaks. Absolutely perfect to me. Now here comes the shitty part. Last night at like ~2AM the power blinks for a second and freaking modem loses sync. It syncs back at 2.4mb/s on G.DMT2+ Annex A and SNR has dropped to 9.4db and attenuation has risen from 56.2 to 58.3. Nothing has changed at all other than the modem losing power for that short time, and the annex being back to the original fail annex a.

I tried to call tech support to have them put me back on Annex L, but the guy claims it's impossible for him to alter such things and offers to send an "advanced" technician out monday.

Is it possible these problems on the 3.0 package are the fault of this POS 2WIRE 2701HG-B modem they sold me for $100? -.- I know someone posted on here that worked for ATT, and any help with this problem would be stellar as I live in the south and people here know next to nothing at this office. The tech. last time even said "well you sound like a technical person - I'm not". Not exactly something that inspires confidence when your ADSL tech says that. Tech support didn't even know what G.DMT2(+) and Annex's were.

If I sent this POS 2WIRE back and got something like a netgear DSL modem would I be able to set my mode back to annex l ADSL2 rather than annex a? I am quite far from the DSLAM so Annex L is most definitely what I need to be on.

I apologize for the huge post, but there is a lot of information to go with the post to explain it clearly. If it isn't written clearly I apologize there is a lot going on in my brain at the moment, and it's hard to say what I want clearly. I'll post my current modem stats below (mind you initially after power failure the sync was 2.4 and after rebooting it to try to get a better sync it dropped to 2.2 and has stayed there after several reboots.)

Also, before I get the obvious answer of have a dry loop ran or wiring replaced that isn't an option due to my father-in-law not wanting it done (/sigh). I know the connection is capable of being consistent at the sold speed at 3.0mb/s. Either the office is failing or the modem, and due to the positioning of my house I can not replace the office with a better company (ie cable internet), but I can replace the modem.

DSL Connection Details DSL Line (Wire Pair): Line 1 (inner pair) Protocol: G.DMT2+ Annex A Downstream Rate: 2211 kbps Upstream Rate: 381 kbps Channel: Interleaved Current Noise Margin: 9.6 dB (Downstream) 12.6 dB (Upstream) Current Attenuation: 58.3 dB (Downstream) 32.7 dB (Upstream) Current Output Power: 17.4 dBm (Downstream) 10.0 dBm (Upstream)

[Cephius]

You seem to be a tech-savvy person, you must be aware that DSL is unreliable at best when at extreme distances from the hub, the tech apparently tried to warn you of this fact when he installed the service for you. I know it's frustrating but it seems you should just conceed you're dealing with an outdated service from a bad company.

[GentaiShinigami]

No I understand these problems. The problem I have now is I have consistent service when on ADSL2 Annex L vs ADSL2+ (shorter theoretical maximum travel distance) Annex A. I want back on Annex L and want to know if i can force it with a better modem (by having more choices).

I mean I'm very new to DSL, and am a cable guy myself, but all the reading I have done points to me being on Annex L ADSL2 being the better choice over ADSL2+ Annex A given my distance from the CO and being on a 3.0mb/s speed package (Annex L sacrifices maximum theoretical speed to boost line signal and reach further for long line loops, but 3.0mb/s is below it's cap and capable of full speed on Annex L as shown by my earlier experiences with it). So wouldn't that be a better choice? I mean ADSL2+ is like up to 24mb/s speeds and they don't even offer above 6.0mb/s so it doesn't make sense to leave me on that one instead of the longer reaching one given how massively far out I am. I figure it's worth trying if nothing else.

I get that DSL is unreliable at times, but I've had a reliable connection and know it is something that's possible given things are set up properly on both ends. Maybe I'm wrong and it was some kind of weird fluke that just makes it seem like Annex L was win, but watching the line improve dramatically as soon as I was switched by the (I assume) CO to Annex L, and watching them turn bad again back on Annex A coupled with the information about both annex's tells me that I should be back on L and I would have a fairly consistent service. At any rate I would like to try Annex L again even if it does cost me some money, and hence why I would like to know if there is a modem that will allow me to do so.

Thank you for your help though Cephius, and I appreciate it.

Edit: Also he said @3.0mb/s I should be rock solid as he gets 4.0mb/s outside at the NID. The stability was a question on 6.0mb/s which obviously I am too far for. He said that he said 1.5mb/s because he likes to tell people to drop a tier under what the line could hold just to be safe (and I assume ensure he doesn't have to come back and deal with it again >.>), but said 3.0mb/s should do just fine.

[GentaiShinigami]

Didn't want another wall of text post so let me break it in two.

Hmmm let me rephrase the question then a different way.

Is there any way my 2WIRE they gave me is the reason for the poor sync rates? I remember in another thread someone said the 2WIRE's are bad, but would this be one of the problems common to them? I have no problem buying a new modem if it will help, but would hate to drop a second hundred on something that won't help.

Edit: After reading more perhaps the problem was not the annex i was/wasn't on, but perhaps my line was improved by being on normal ADSL2 rather than ADSL2+. ADSL2 supports up to 12mb/s down so no idea why they would bother putting me on ADSL2+ (up to 24mb/s).

After running my attenuation through this link:
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/max_speed_calc.php

It shows exactly what I was receiving when on Annex L (actually its lower because I'm figuring with 58db attenuation instead of the 56db i had before the modem reset). Max sync of ~3200 and a throughput of ~2800ish which is what I end up getting on speed test.

I believe moving from ADSL2+ to ADSL2 reduces attenuation a small amount due to less frequency being used, and this is further increased when using Annex L because even less frequency is used to support a longer loop length (7km max, I'm 4km away apparently according to that calc.) This would explain why my attenuation lowered to 56 when switched over to ADSL2 Annex L and why it raised back to 58 when it reset to ADSL2+ Annex A. Maybe Annex L is irrelevant and I just need to be on ADSL2 with no plus. /sigh So frustrating, but thank you to all who read and comment.

[GentaiShinigami]

Uggh such a headache, but after digging for hours I found a post in the middle of nowhere on the net on a UK site that explains some things. I'd still like the tech to try out Annex L, but it's looking like the exchange must be slammed when I'm trying to resync in the day and it's raping my sync speed. I always get the best speeds I've noticed at ~1AM time frame so I'll try resyncing tonight and see what happens.

I just rebooted it and picked up ~200kb/s (0.2mb.s) speed on the line. Why wouldn't ATT just say that the exchange is overloaded/fubarred and preventing a good sync rather than send a tech out and then an advanced tech? >.>; The whole system of picking a number to sync at and holding it till the next reboot is just facepalm kinda stupid IMO. Really wish I could just move to cable and be done with it, but coaxial isn't ran through the house, to the house (all lines also have to be buried..) and of course I can't have more lines ran because it's not my house. >.< When I was reading about ADSL everything said ADSL wasn't effected by peak times because each line is a direct connection to the provider not a shared LAN setup like Cable. One tech I talked to I even asked if it could be because of heavy traffic at the exchange and he said flat out no because it's a "direct subscription to the internet, hence why its called digital subscriber line".

So confused at this point I'm not even sure what to try. -.-;

Edit: Attenuation has now dropped to 57.6 vs 58.4 just since the last 20 minutes roughly. I sense something screwy going on at my exchange...

[Cephius]

You could try a different modem or upgrade firmware but I doubt it's going to help. Cable would be better for you since it doesn't suffer from signal degradation as bad as DSL does. Have you looked at alternate options like satellite or WWAN cards? Chances are they'll suck too, but it may be better than the shitty DSL packages.

[GentaiShinigami]

Wow wtf I had a nice response typed up and when I click post it totally owned it and it's nowhere to be found. Quick reply ftl.

Anyway, yeah I agree cable would be stellar, but like I mentioned above this house was built with the intention to be as off the grid/as far from society as he could make it pretty much, and was not built to be "new age/technology" friendly lol. Satellite and Verizon card that plugs into USB (is this the WWAN you speak of?) are both over a $100 a month for ~1mb/s and in Verizon's case a 1gb a MONTH transfer limit (complete, not drop down speed once you hit it - cut off 100%). So both of those are worthless and cost triple what I'm paying for this. T.T

Edit: Oh, and thanks for reading through all that shit in effort to help me Cephius! I appreciate the help.

[Lebzile]

I've been on the AT&T 5mb plan(they said it was 6mb, something about DSL 6.0 or some shit) for about a year or 2 now and can say you will end up loathing AT&T. When it was Bellsouth before AT&T bought them out my net would never go slow on me, but ever since AT&T took over my net would go from a nice smooth 90ping to well over 600ping.

I speedtested once during a shitty net session and swear it was at 1500. Seriously feels like my net goes from 5mb/s to 56k. I've had techs out here looking at our lines and they'd say there was no problems which I know is bullshit.

[GentaiShinigami]

I've been on the AT&T 5mb plan(they said it was 6mb, something about DSL 6.0 or some shit) for about a year or 2 now and can say you will end up loathing AT&T. When it was Bellsouth before AT&T bought them out my net would never go slow on me, but ever since AT&T took over my net would go from a nice smooth 90ping to well over 600ping.

I speedtested once during a shitty net session and swear it was at 1500. Seriously feels like my net goes from 5mb/s to 56k. I've had techs out here looking at our lines and they'd say there was no problems which I know is bullshit.

It's funny you mention loathing them because I am doing that just now. I just got my first statement since I got the ADSL which was gonna make my bill a total of $73 roughly because the phone package here was so old it he was paying $72 a month for just phone service... so when I signed up for DSL the woman said she would drop him to current day rates and then add the DSL on so that my bill would only go up a few dollars rather than by ~40.

Wellllll today the statement comes in and guess what? -_- The statement is just the $40 added onto the old $72 so now the bill is $112 even though I was told two weeks later when downgrading the speed package (since couldn't handle 6.0) that my new bill would be $73 vs the $79 it was on 6.0. How the fuck ATT? I really just can't understand wtf is going on with them. I bet they are going to pull the "we didn't say that" card about the rate they promised even though I was told it on two different occasions separated by two weeks time and two diff operators. Luckily, I have the original lady's name who signed me up and promised me the rate. They are closed (of course, isn't it always after hours or SUN when billing problems happen?), but the guy I talked to told me they have to write down all that they say during a call, and that if I have her name it should be np. Plus, the freaking bill doesn't even have me on the 3.0 package they still charging me for 6.0 lol... So much fail but hey that's what happens when you live in the south and deal with ATT? So mf'ing fed up atm.

Oh, and on Annex L now and speeds are going back up lol. I'm at ~2.5mb/s currently after first reboot but its mid day and probably a bad time to do a sync. Still this time yesterday on Annex A was 2.1mb/s. ><