The civil rights act and title VII (religion in the workplace)

[Tyche]

My wife and I were having a hypothetical conversation a bit ago regarding her employer and her religious beliefs (or lack thereof). My wife, a bit less atheist and more agnostic than I, works for a catholic daycare center. They have a catholic-based curriculum and most of upper management (including the executive director) are of the cloth (or they're nuns, not sure the appropriate vernacular). My wife thinks they could fire her if she were to "come out" as being agnostic. I don't think they could, citiing title VII. My wife thinks they may be ale to potentially skirt title VII by saying she couldn't uphold her duties as an employee because of her religious beliefs. So, do you think it's possible they could fire her for this and get away with it. If so, how would that fly with a hearing for unemployment benefits. If anything, I'm sure she'd easily be able to argue her case in front of an unemployment arbitrator.

[Mazmaz]

Why risk it? Even if you could beat them on the issue, do you have the money and time for a legal battle?

[Xno Kappa]

Wasn't there a supreme court ruling recently on this very issue?

[Tyche]

Why risk it? Even if you could beat them on the issue, do you have the money and time for a legal battle?

We won't risk it, it was hypothetical. Hell, I'm about to start a new job at a hospital that refuses to do tubal ligations because it's a form of birth control. During new employment orientation, there's a lot of praying. For what they're paying me, I'll do my hail marys all damn day.

[Mazmaz]

Oh. Well if it's just hypothetical then I'd say they probably will get away with it because the US is more batshit crazy about their religion than what I'm used to. Religious institutions seem to get away with breaking the law more often.
But that's just me being Canadian.

[Ashmada]

A shady enough employer* will always find a way to fire an employee for BS reasons. Or harass one into quitting.


*Let alone a catholic employer.

[Tyche]

She works in an at-will state, so they could fire her for just about any reason (title VII is an exception, they still cannot violate it). So I'm sure they could find a reason if they wanted, but beings this is hypothetical, I'm specifically referring to this reason.

[Pirian]

Pretty sure they can't fire her for her religion (or lack there of), but they can fire her for any little thing that they make an excuse of after the fact, if they so choose.

[Xno Kappa]

Wasn't there a supreme court ruling recently on this very issue?

Found it.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...otus-text.html

In a major religious liberty decision, the Supreme Court for the first time recognized a “ministerial exception” to employment discrimination laws, saying that churches and other religious groups must be free to choose their leaders without government interference...

[Tyche]

Found it.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...otus-text.html

That's pretty solid precedence. By title, my wife is a teacher. She's completed religious training, so I suppose they could consider her a minister. My wife will be thrilled that she's a catholic minister.

God damn I hate being wrong, especially when I've received education in the subject.

[Apelila]

So "Freedom of Religion > Federal Regulatory laws", yes?

Incoming first bank of Yahweh, come deposit and pray!

[Kerberoz]

Pretty sure they can't fire her for her religion (or lack there of), but they can fire her for any little thing that they make an excuse of after the fact, if they so choose.

This. Also, it's practically impossible to prove you were fired as a result of discrimination unless your boss is a fucktard.

[Darus Grey]

I forget what the actual term for this is, but yes, a religious institution can fire someone for having different beliefs if they can argue that those beliefs are central tenants of being able to perform their role in the organization.

i.e. If you're hiring for a catholic minister, and they come out as being secret jews, muslims, what have you, that is appropriate grounds for termination, the same reasoning you're allowed to discriminate against them during the hiring phase.

[BaneTheBrawler]

My dad works for a catholic university, and while they'd be absolutely insane* to fire him for being protestant, they've also passed him up for promotion a few times because of that + his age. Not really anything he can do about it.

*I say this not because they'd get in trouble, which they probably would, but because my dad is really good at his job, and is blessed with a healthy amount of common sense, which they lack.

[Brill Weave]

I wouldn't fuck with the Catholic Church Inc. They would fire her ass and not feel bad for a second about it.

[Ragnus]

Which is exactly what Jesus* would do and feel in that situation.

*American Republican Jesus

[aznmajiktaru]

Yea, unfortunately religious institutions have the right to fire you because you're not part of their religion so don't ever piss them off! Worse if she's a teacher, since they're in a position to influence, if they go the really bat shit route they can pull the kids together and convince them she's been teaching them shit to fuck with their religion lol.

[Niiro]

So "Freedom of Religion > Federal Regulatory laws", yes?

Incoming first bank of Yahweh, come deposit and pray!

Yes, what a delightfully absurd concept!

[Apelila]

Well, Bank Implies you can get your money back OUT

[Kohan]

My dad works for a catholic university, and while they'd be absolutely insane* to fire him for being protestant, they've also passed him up for promotion a few times because of that + his age. Not really anything he can do about it.

*I say this not because they'd get in trouble, which they probably would, but because my dad is really good at his job, and is blessed with a healthy amount of common sense, which they lack.

If he has a "healthy amount of common sense," why is he wasting his talents at a university that won't promote him? If he's tried to get a job elsewhere and hasn't been hired, or he's bound to something (e.g., a house) and there aren't any other options in the area, I would be more understanding. If he's made no effort to leave and has skills that would earn him a higher pay rate, though, I wouldn't call that good sense.