Samurai as a tank

[Alastaire]

Something I've been curious about since the addition of Seigan to the game was how well SAM could tank things, even certain HNMs.

Third Eye VS Utsusemi:
Third Eye can negate multi-hit WS via a single evade, while Utsusemi cannot.
Utsusemi can block single target spells, while Third Eye cannot (this is a very obvious con)
Third Eye cannot be interrupted, as it is a JA, whlie Utsusemi can, because it is a spell.
Utsusemi is completely cancelled by -ga spells, Third Eye isn't(although you still take damage)

Third Eye's duration is now 30s, making the space between Third Eyes seamless with Seigan up, if you evade all attacks between recasts. The main problem here, is that the closer Third Eye gets to wearing off naturally, the lesser chance you have to evade an attack with it; it seems on average, from an average speed mob, you can evade/counter a minimum of 3 attacks from one Third Eye before you get hit.

This of course makes SAM seem like it wouldn't be a very viable tank on HNM-like monsters, who can hit really hard during the time you'd be vulnerable, which I estimate to be about 12 seconds, give or take a few.

With Third Eye merits, you could reduce the recast of Third Eye to 25s, making that vulnerable period 8-10s only in most situations; however, this is STILL likely to be too much time to take damage, as you could be hit a couple times in this period.

The solution: Sub Dark Knight. By subbing Dark Knight, you can Stun, which could be used to shave off even MORE of that vulnerable period if timed correctly, as well as the JA Weapon Bash, which, while it wouldn't be available at every vulnerable period, it would help you out of tough situations, as well as give you more enmity.

It'd be similar to NIN/DRK tanking, you'd use Haste swap-in to reduce the recast of Stun, easily bringing it to a point that would make it usable during every vulnerable window(this is also assuming you have someone casting the spell Haste on you), and a dmg%- setup for when you're in your vulnerable window, I think SAM/DRK tanking is very, very plausible.(keeping in mind that SAM and NIN can wear the same amount of dmg%- gear)

Not to mention the amount of damage you'll STILL be dealing, especially with the changes made to Overwhelm, and the fact that you will always be in front of the mob while you're tanking

There's of course certain situations where you might be forced to wield an Earth Staff for extra damage protection, but I think you'd still be okay, although a NIN would still have the enmity advantage via Ninjutsu.

As mentioned above, the very obvious con is the fact that you would be vulnerable to single target spells, but I still think this could be a very powerful combo against certain mobs.

EDIT: Yeah, I stupidly didn't consider that recast timers got raped by Seigan/Hasso, it's something I completely forgot about. However, taking into account the amount of dmg- gear SAM can wear, I still think it's a very viable tank for certain mobs.

[Genosync]

Utsusemi is reliable

Third Eye is not

Any other questions?

[Alastaire]

Utsusemi is reliable

Third Eye is not

Any other questions?

From my experience Third Eye with Seigan evades at least 3 attacks, possibly 4; I'm aware that this might not hold true with stronger monsters, as I haven't tested it yet VS HNMs, this is all just theory.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Utsusemi is reliable

Third Eye is not

Any other questions?

Where do babies come from?

[Chips]

Versus HNMs, how does Third Eye hold up while Seigan is active?

[Seditedi]

LS member was tanking Skoffins as SAM/WAR np with Third Eye and Seigan, we might try it out on Genbu for fun. lol, exp mobs... but still, he said he got hit maybe once per Skoffin.

[Uubu]

My 55 sam last night in a spam PT (where I ended up tanking) became an MP sponge that a 75 rdm runs out of MP curing... so yes its possible... but not plausible

[BerenTebogo]

Rice balls + 2x enhance gear for solid offense + defense tanking or quit.

But with the right setup I'd let a SAM tank say...NQ Behe, lol.

[Chips]

My 55 sam last night in a spam PT (where I ended up tanking) became an MP sponge that a 75 rdm runs out of MP curing... so yes its possible... but not plausible

I suggest you learn how to SAM properly.

[Uubu]

pushing out 40-50% on the parser vs a monk/war/cor. I think I am playing sam right (at level 55)

[layoneil]

pushing out 40-50% on the parser vs a monk/war/cor. I think I am playing sam right (at level 55)

outparsing people at the expense of MP is the wrong way to play any DD job.

[Chips]

pushing out 40-50% on the parser vs a monk/war/cor. I think I am playing sam right (at level 55)

Haha, you fail.

[Akiyama]

I tested it in Dynamis last night. It lasted 6 anticipates before "wearing" one time, then the other it acted as a regular third eye would, so yeah. Reliability issues.

[Sidanoir]

The biggest problem with Third Eye as an Utsusemi substitute is that it is a Job Ability, and March nor Haste or any Haste gear will not speed up its recast..

You can push really low timers on Utsusemi Ichi and Ni I think like 12/20secs? I forgot what the ultimate floor is...Third Eye cant get that low.

Marchx2 + Haste can make any /NIN job a viable tank..assuming they can hold hate... lol

[Uubu]

better then trying to make a dd job a tank job, which by far the only way its going to hold hate it by doing damage not self-damage mitigation.

[Chips]

better then trying to make a dd job a tank job, which by far the only way its going to hold hate it by doing damage not self-damage mitigation.

Stun is able to hold hate pretty well.

So is Raptor Mazurka.

[Ishido]

Utsusemi is reliable

Third Eye is not

Any other questions?

This is the correct answer.

[Sidanoir]

DRK/NIN can tank big stuff.....

BRD/NIN can tank big stuff....

These two jobs have one thing in common, they both can generate massive hate...something SAM/NIN or THF/NIN etc. etc. can't

[Uubu]

Stun is able to hold hate pretty well.

So is Raptor Mazurka.

If you think thats what enables nins to sub drk and brd, you are a retard. Why doesnt anyone on the paladin bus sub bard or drk while were at it(sarcasm)

[Alastaire]

DRK/NIN can tank big stuff.....

BRD/NIN can tank big stuff....

These two jobs have one thing in common, they both can generate massive hate...something SAM/NIN or THF/NIN etc. etc. can't

Did you even read my post? I never suggested subbing Ninja.