Colombia vs Venezuela vs Ecuador vs ???

[Kuya]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23464623/

BOGOTA, Colombia - Hundreds of Venezuelan troops moved Tuesday toward the border with Colombia, where trade was slowing amid heightening tension over Colombia’s cross-border strike on a rebel base in Ecuador.

The Organization of American States scheduled an emergency afternoon meeting in Washington to try to calm one of the region’s worst political showdowns in years, pitting U.S.-backed Colombia against Venezuela’s leftist President Hugo Chavez and his allies. Colombian and Ecuadorean officials, meanwhile, traded accusations in the United Nations and the International Criminal Court.

The escalation of tensions was triggered over the weekend when Colombia troops crossed the border with Ecuador and killed Raul Reyes, a top commander of the Colombian FARC rebels who had set up a camp there.

Uribe said his government would ask the International Criminal Court to try Chavez for “genocide” for allegedly financing the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia or FARC, the country’s main rebel group. He cited a reference to a $300 million Venezuelan payment in documents found in a laptop the Colombians said belonged to Reyes.

The biggest losers from the killing of Reyes appeared to be the hostages that FARC rebels have held for years, pending a swap with rebel prisoners.

Ecuador and France said they had been communicating with Reyes, trying to secure a hostage release, when Colombia’s air force crossed the border to bomb his jungle camp. Along with Reyes, 20 other rebels were killed.

“I’m sorry to tell you that the conversations were pretty advanced to free 12 hostages,” Ecuador’s leftist president, Rafael Correa, said in a nationally televised address. “All of this was frustrated by the war-mongering, authoritarian hands” of the Colombian government.

French Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Pascale Andreani confirmed that France was in contact with Reyes as well, and that “the Colombians were aware of it.”

Colombia said documents in Reyes’ laptop indicate that Correa’s internal security minister met recently with a FARC envoy to discuss deepening relations with Ecuador, and even replacing military officers who might oppose that.

Publicly, there had been no indication of even preliminary progress in securing the release of any of the 40 hostages the FARC wants to swap for hundreds of jailed guerrillas.

Those hostages include three U.S. military contractors and former Colombian presidential candidate Ingrid Betancourt, a dual French national who has become a cause celebre in Europe.

Another victim of the crisis may be border trade worth $5 billion a year, most of it Colombian exports sorely needed by Venezuelans already suffering milk and meat shortages. Ecuador also depends on some $1.8 billion in trade with Colombia

Colombia’s national police chief, Gen. Oscar Naranjo, made a series of shocking allegations based on documents in laptops he said were seized by commandos after the bombing at the camp. Among them, he said, was evidence that Chavez gave the rebels $300 million for some sort of “armed alliance.”

He said other documents suggest Correa’s administration was deepening its relations with the rebels, considered a drug-dealing band of terrorists band by the European Union and United States.

And the Colombian police chief even said some documents suggested the rebels were seeking to buy uranium, though he gave no details.

Both Venezuela and Ecuador expelled Colombia’s ambassadors in the wake of the attack and dismissed the allegations as lies.

Venezuela later displayed the laptop of a slain drug trafficker, and said it implicates Naranjo in the cocaine trade.

Correa flew to Peru Tuesday as the first stop in a regional tour to rally other Latin American leaders against Colombia. Other diplomatic efforts to defuse the crisis were under way in Washington on Tuesday, where an emergency OAS meeting was scheduled.

Copy pasted the most important parts because i wanted people to actually reed it. I'm surprised this wasn't posted here, seing as how these events seem particularly important to me. Not to be an alarmist but a war could break out this way, however unlikely it may me. And like i mentioned before in another thread, these escapades where a nation violates another's boders to get at terrorist groups is starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth.

[ronin sparthos]

Read FARC was trying to get some kilos of enriched uranium on the black market. Wonder what they wanna do with that.... *cough*dirtybombs*cough*.

[Blarg]

If I respect your borders will you respect mine?

[Kuya]

If I respect your borders will you respect mine?

Wrong latin americans.

[Atlasion]

If I respect your borders will you respect mine?

But terrorism doesn't have borders!!

[Xavier]

Respecting borders is good and well except when rebels attacking your country setup shop on your neighbors border, and your other neighbor helps to finance them. For better or worse I can't imagine America sitting idly buy if Al qaeda setup shop in Mexico and pummeled Texas.

Chavez is going to be put in his place.

[Kuya]

I understand that terrorism isn't affiliated to a single nation, hence why "The War on Terrorism" is such a stupid thing. I understand that you can't fight them traditionaly like some nation's army, but you have to see it from both sides. Giving nations the power to illegal cross another's borders without punishment in a world where nation states are suposed to be organized and limited by international laws (lol i know), these sort of things are just ticking time bombs. I don't see how international problems can't arise from nations just deciding by themselves that they can "invade" another.

Even though it is much like a slippery slope, i find the idea where a nation can possible just declare that you have terrorists and then "legally" invade you, troublesome.

[Xavier]

I think theres a distinction to be made between "invasion" and "targeted strike". Obviously sovereignty is ignored in either case, but in the latter your intent isn't to overthrow an established government. Not saying either is favorable but invasion is a pretty strong term.

[Kuya]

That's why i put it in between those marks to denote that it is like an invasion but not one per say. Plus since it's obvious where i'm coming from in accordence with my disaprovement of these tactics, it's evident why i'd choose to say "invasion".

IE: I'm trying to demonize it, lol.

[Tyr]

Not that I'm well-read in today's news, but wow, I didn't know or hear about any of this until reading this post (thanks for that).

[Kuya]

A problem i have with the whole terrorism label, somewhat unrelated to this thread's content, is that, regardless of a group's choice of actions (meaning violent actions), it somehow completely negates whether the group has valid complaints for whatever establishment they're trying to oppose. It's like this huge cop out, where you simply have to label a group terrorists in order to make the public turn a blind eye to the reasons why these groups formed in the first place, and instead they simply see some sub-humans who love killing civilians. I'm not saying that these terrorist groups (and yes, i am using that label, but just to be complacent) aren't grostesque in their actions, but this does not devalue their complaints. If you investigate Colombian history, you'll find just what the government has done to them, and what they're reasons for existing were, which were and still should be pondered.

[Xavier]

One mans rebel is always another mans freedom fighter.

[evilbau]

Copy pasted the most important parts because i wanted people to actually reed it. I'm surprised this wasn't posted here, seing as how these events seem particularly important to me. Not to be an alarmist but a war could break out this way, however unlikely it may me. And like i mentioned before in another thread, these escapades where a nation violates another's boders to get at terrorist groups is starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Although I'm no expert in South America (I do try to keep up somewhat), I'm not too concerned (or should I say surprised) and I'll tell you why. Most importantly, this is not between nations, but between Colombia and the FARC rebels. Ecuador and Venezuela are criticizing Colombia, but I don't think this will turn into a full scale war, especially with the United States getting involved. President Bush already said he is supporting Colombia, and no one except some Middle Eastern countries, China, and to some extent Russia will act in open defiance of the United States.

More violence and border skirmishes could be expected but thats hardly unusual. Take Israel for example, there is daily violence and news-worthy events (such as Israeli troops returning to Gaza today amid, you guessed it, more violence) but crazily its whats expected. Rebels, drug runners, and potential revolutions always surround South America.

[Kuya]

At first i was going to complain that of course that the country with most of the power would try to assure its interests are kept in check, but then again, sometimes having a nation with a monopoly isn't such a bad thing if it can avoid a war. But i wonder if it really is beneficial for the US to keep interferring like this in world events, not saying they shouldn't, but i do wonder what the ultimate consequences are in the end. Anyway, i'll keep an eye out on these events just in case while reading up on South America for a while, i guess.

[Xavier]

As far as the Western Hemisphere is concerned, this is nothing new, its been the policy of the United States for the past 185 years.

[Takeno]

The fact that Venezuela and Ecuador are attacking Colombia the way they are is just ridiculous. Raul Reyes, is the #2 head of FARC, and Colombia was in no way attacking Ecuador. Even though it is wrong to get into their country, I just think they are overreacting. In addition, I cant believe they are supporting FARC, they are drug dealers, kidnappers, and killers. They have killed and kidnapped many Colombians over the past 50 years, they are considered a terrorist group because of this.

Fucking communists -.-

[archibaldcrane]

The fact that Venezuela and Ecuador are attacking Colombia the way they are is just ridiculous.

Yeah, how dare they speak in harsh language and move their troops around in their own countries - what a ridiculous reaction! Totally uncalled for.

[Xavier]

The fact that Venezuela and Ecuador are attacking Colombia the way they are is just ridiculous.

Yeah, how dare they speak in harsh language and move their troops around in their own countries - what a ridiculous reaction! Totally uncalled for.

Moving your troops around and moving your troops to the border are two different things. Not totally disagreeing with you but when Hugo Chavez says "there will be war" and moves his troops within miles of Columbia, MAYBE its not so far-fetched to call this an overreaction.

[archibaldcrane]

The fact that Venezuela and Ecuador are attacking Colombia the way they are is just ridiculous.

Yeah, how dare they speak in harsh language and move their troops around in their own countries - what a ridiculous reaction! Totally uncalled for.

Moving your troops around and moving your troops to the border are two different things. Not totally disagreeing with you but when Hugo Chavez says "there will be war" and moves his troops within miles of Columbia, MAYBE its not so far-fetched to call this an overreaction.

Let me know when he crosses the border of a sovereign nation like Colombia did, then we can begin a discussion of "overreacting".

[Takeno]

The fact that Venezuela and Ecuador are attacking Colombia the way they are is just ridiculous.

Yeah, how dare they speak in harsh language and move their troops around in their own countries - what a ridiculous reaction! Totally uncalled for.

Moving your troops around and moving your troops to the border are two different things. Not totally disagreeing with you but when Hugo Chavez says "there will be war" and moves his troops within miles of Columbia, MAYBE its not so far-fetched to call this an overreaction.

Let me know when he crosses the border of a sovereign nation like Colombia did, then we can begin a discussion of "overreacting".

Because crossing a border to attack a country is the same thing to cross a border to attack a group of terrorists who use the international policy as their way to protect themselves after killing many people. Shit, they were attacked at night and they were wearing pajamas. They must have been there for a really long time, and now Ecuador wants to defend them. The only reason being because they might in reality have something to do with supporting the terrorist FARC, same applies to Venezuela.