Tests on multihit weapons

[Khelek]

Since noone seems to have done it before, I've done some simple tests to see how often 1s, 2s and 3s proc on an "Occasionally attacks 2 to 3 times" weapon, as well as how Double Attack is calculated in conjunction with the same weapon.

Results:
http://algelius.livejournal.com/2800.html

Proc rates for 1s, 2s and 3s are as follow:
1s: 30%
2s: 50%
3s: 20%

Double Attack is calculated BEFORE the effect "Occasionally Attacks 2 to 3 times", weakening the effect.

Would have posted this in advanced, but seeing as how this section IS the advanced one nowadays, here it is. Hope it will be of use to someone~

[Lordwafik]

People have done the tests plenty of times before, that is why people used to ridicule DA merits + Ridill.

[Rocl]

It's also why you don't use Brutal w/ Kraken!

[Khelek]

There are no tests to be found. anywhere. and lolotherwiki says DA is activated after multihit weapons, which I'm sure they'd change if tests had been posted anywhere for them to steal <.<

[Lordwafik]

KI WAR forums ran the tests a while ago, there's a plethora of infos there.

Anyway, how are DA merits now? Worth upgrading now that everyone's gone 2hander?

[Burginator]

KI WAR forums ran the tests a while ago, there's a plethora of infos there.

Anyway, how are DA merits now? Worth upgrading now that everyone's gone 2hander?

Yeah. Zerk/DA should be 5/5 for a GAxe user, imo. I've got enough accuracy to nearly cap on most shit without even worrying about aggressor.

[Mojo]

With an average swing number of 1.9, I fail to see how double attack would end up hurting Ridill or any other 2-3 hit weapon.

[Aable]

Can someone please explain to me what I am missing math wise? I am a social sciences major so math often escapes me.

10% double attack leaves 90 rounds out of 100 normal
30*.9= 27 single attacks
50*.9= 45 + 10 = 55 Double attack rounds
20*.9= 18 tripple attack rounds
27 + (55 x 2) + (18 x 3)= 191 swings in 100 combat rounds

no double attack, just multi hit
30 + (50 x 2) + (20 x 3 ) = 190 swings in 100 combat rounds

looks to me like double attack makes multi hit distributed at 30 50 20 better.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Yeah. Zerk/DA should be 5/5 for a GAxe user, imo. I've got enough accuracy to nearly cap on most shit without even worrying about aggressor.

Unless you merit solely off flying EXP-bombs, I have difficulty believing this.

[Valyana]

Old testing: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ridill

[Phraust]

Can someone please explain to me what I am missing math wise? I am a social sciences major so math often escapes me.

10% double attack leaves 90 rounds out of 100 normal
30*.9= 27 single attacks
50*.9= 45 + 10 = 55 Double attack rounds
20*.9= 18 tripple attack rounds
27 + (55 x 2) + (18 x 3)= 191 swings in 100 combat rounds

no double attack, just multi hit
30 + (50 x 2) + (20 x 3 ) = 190 swings in 100 combat rounds

looks to me like double attack makes multi hit distributed at 30 50 20 better.

That's the thing.
It's not that it's "Bad" per se, it's that it doesn't add anything. You pretty much do the same amount of hits no matter how many DA items/merits you have for the most part. The only thing those items actually enhance are the "other" weapon. It's not like you're only holding a ridill. So if you're Axe/Ridll you're getting like 2.9 hits a round average, and merits/gear add that to the main hand. I just woke up so this may come out wrong/fuzzy, but basically if you have 10% DA, and you're not adding/taking away form your off hand(ridill) you're only adding 10% on to 1/3 of the swings you produce. So in like 100 swing set pairs you'll do 290 swings without any gear/merits/traits; if you add say 15%(base and merits on war) you're adding 15 hits to 100 of the 290, and your total swings will be 305.

15% for only ~5% more output. Where Zerk/Gressor merits add ~25% more attack and accuracy for 60% of ther time, merits reduce the time you don't have that boost by 42%. Or.. Instead of having that boost 60% of the time, you now have it 72% of the time.

[Tubbers]

4 DA 3 Zerk 3 Aggressor is pretty standard, I'm not sure whether it is the "best" in most circumstances, but it appears to work well in all, as opposed to great in some and poorly in others.

[Suiram]

There was just a thread in this forum related to this question, it's on page 2 now "How to apply DA/TA merits..."

People used to ridicule DA merits with Ridill not because of the subtle increases, but because they assumed a 1:1:1 distribution of ridill procs. Now that it's been demonstrated to be 3:5:2, DA is still good (the analogy I made in the other thread was a gauge with 0% DA and 1.9 swings on the left, and 100% DA and 2 swings on the right). Now whether you want to consider DA vs. some other stat from gear or merit is a more nuanced question, but that's not why people ridiculed Takedown.

Edit: I still think people were right to have ridiculed him because he had no way of knowing that it wasn't 1:1:1 lol

Edit2: Sorry I'm dumb, Takedown was Warcry not DA lol

[Fogo]

Along these lines, with respect to jailer weapons (specifically fort axe in my case), I always wondered, does the DA from traits activate before, or after the DA from the virtue stone? (I love getting those random triple attacks with fort axe!). Not that it really matters, mostly a curiosity of mine.

To the mention of flying exp-bombs (greater colibris yes?) i am usually right at the acc cap or just a hair under it w/o aggressor, full timing askar body with my GA build, so yeah, pretty easy to get away w/o those aggressor merits nowadays.

[Redshift]

The point he was alluding to is you aren't going to be capping at Mamools (better exp). Not to mention you won't be capping on anything that matters.