Basic question regarding physical damage.

[Karinastar]

Ok, I didn't think this was a big deal but apparently it's gotten some people up in arms, even in my own LS.

I basically stated that a NIN in a "standard" HNM tanking kit (E.staff, Arhat's, etc) will take less damage from UNBLOCKED physical attacks and physical TP moves than a PLD in a "standard" tanking kit will.

I specifically said unblocked hits to the face, not factoring in shield. Is this a false statement?

Note that this isn't an argument about which tank is "better", as we all know that not getting hit at all (or in PLD/WAR's case shield blocking as much as possible) is the best way to mitigate damage. Nor is it an argument on any other aspect, just taking direct physical smacks to the face.

[Ehran]

"standard" HNM tanking kit (E.staff, Arhat's, etc) will take less damage from UNBLOCKED physical attacks and physical TP moves than a PLD in a "standard" tanking kit will.

I max out at -40% physical damage taken. Stack that with some pieces of +VIT and Phalanx II and some decent food and the NIN has a lot more durability than you might expect. From what I've seen the damage is comparable to what a fully decked out PLD will get. Figuring out who will take less damage a PLD or a NIN when you are face-tanking can get down to a matter of splitting hairs.

/cue link to Rukenshin's live-journal...

[Miriamel]

http://rukenshin.livejournal.com/14854. ... 2#comments

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/7168/faith1qm.jpg

[Karinastar]

Yeah, that's good evidence right there, but I figured it IS Ruk... I mean, enemies have to work just to punch through the latent aura of uber that surrounds him. o_O

[Eaglestrike]

Considering a NIN can also get to around the soft cap of defense if they try (defender and taco with Pro IV+ and a full set of gear can basically get you to this) I'd say they certainly can.

The WDMG of mobs is stupidly high and their attack is not. If it was different then damage taken would be far different. Lower mob WDMG to 100-150, or take off the lower bound of pDIF when a mob is hitting someone, but raise their attack to 600-700 and it'll still own a ninja in damage taken but a PLD will take hits fine.

[Krandor]

It's 100% fact, all the VIT and Defense in the world on a PLD can't match up to the 40% raw damage reduction your average NIN can wear (though I'm not really going to debate the issue of a Jelly Ring, I personally haven't used mine in at least a year).

Some of the mages in my LS don't believe me on this fact alot of times, but it kind of has alot to do with NIN/DRKs wearing stuff like Turban, or in some instances some of our NINs using a Yasha Body

[VZX]

I hope this is not too diverged from the topic:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/vzx/67smite.jpg
^ Freaking RNG/NIN w/o any earthen ward or whatsoever

[aurik]

What range was he standing at when the weaponskill was used? I've seen throat stab do reduced damage if you're a certain distance from the mob (but not far enough to totally avoid it), maybe smite works in a similar manner?

[VZX]

Ahhh.. that's probably it. I've grown a habit running a way during smite.

So are they ranged TP move or what? the spell learnt by BLU is categorized as melee's though.

[SassiAsura]

Some of the mages in my LS don't believe me on this fact alot of times, but it kind of has alot to do with NIN/DRKs wearing stuff like Turban, or in some instances some of our NINs using a Yasha Body

I'm not sure what you mean by this, care to explain?

[mikazuki]

turban as opposed to arhat's jinpachi(+1) and yasha body instead of arhat's gi(+1) which make up 10%+ of the dmg reduction.

i think nin caps at 42% without defending ring.

[TB]

i think nin caps at 42% without defending ring.

20% Staff, 9% Arhats Gi +1, 6% Arhats Jinpachi +1, 5% Jelly Ring = 40%

[mikazuki]

darksteel mittens, subligar, leggings, giving -1 -2 -1 respectively, using the +1 versions gives a total of -7%, so you can have -47% without d.ring.

i remember it as 42% from suggesting an nq subligar to a friend*, but yeah technically it's 47%

using the darksteel pieces can be fairly worthless obviously, depending on what other options you have.

*for the sexy

[Alvinho]

Physical damage reduction caps @ 50%, no? Just wondering...

[TB]

Ah right. Forgot about NIN being able to wear Darksteel stuff.

[Demitrius]

My setup has -34% damage (Terra's, Arhat's body +1, Jelly), about 630 defense with Defender + Tacos, and something like +35 VIT. I generally don't take any more HNM damage on regular unblocked hits than an equivalent paladin. On stuff like the sky pop NMs, Zip for example, I usually hit the low-end cap on damage taken for my setup, something like 80 a hit (same number each time). It's not hard to reach, just get a good set of gear, sub WAR for Defender, and bring defense food.

[Brimah]

Yes, NIN can take less DMG a hit than PLD with the right setup. I use to get mocked a lot when I said I could do that as a Taru NIN, so many laughed saying a Taru NIN can take less DMG than a PLD.

I always loved co tanking with NINs that didn't know what they were doing. I would get hit for the high 100s, and other NIN in the low to mid 300s. Also co tanking with a PLD that used Staff was retarded, never realized how much shield really does help.

[Grad]

What about without defender? We killed Ix'MNK last week and I was taking very low dmg as /war but when the RDM cured me hate was lost and he got fucked up. Voke and Warcry can only do so much when you are getting hit 50 times in a matter of seconds. If I were to go /brd for sure hate, how much more dmg would I take? /war, defender, def songs, taco, pro 5, (no phalanx 2 ;; ) I was taking 15-25 per hit. ( I'm @ -40% also btw )

[Sylphet]

Anyone who compares Ruke's NIN to your average end game ninja knows nothing about what they're talking about.

Is it possible? yup sure, with the best gear and skill
Is it common? nope, at least not in my experience and I've personally monitored damage taken comparing Ruke's to other tanks we have.

In general he takes less physical damage than other tanks but that's all other tanks.. not just PLDs

[Stellar]

Comparing the physical damage taken by a pld/war without a shield to a nin/war using defender and -phys dmg gears is kinda silly because it's not a likely scenario. More commonly you will have nin/drk or nin/brd vs. pld/nin with a shield. The nin's will likely take less damage than a non-blocked paladin hit, but the hits blocked with a shield will be considerably lower than the ninja's so it will be pretty close, depending on the pld's shield skill and a lot of other variables, such as player skill, good use of macroes, etc.. Also don't forget about Sentinel, which is huuuuuge damage reduction once per 5 minutes.

But for the sake of winning your argument, a nin/war (mnk/war and sam/war could do the same) with defender, tav tacos and 40% damage reduction will take considerably less than a defense/vit stacked pld/war without a shield.