Relic 3x damage formula

[divisortheory]

We were discussing exactly where 3x damage is applied in the relic triple damage formula on a KI thread recently.

I know it's not the last step in the calculation, because the number isn't always divisible by 3. I always chalked it up to a rounding problem, but Ludomancer on KI had the bright idea that perhaps it simply multiplied your base D by 3. I decided to go out and do some testing.

The setup:
Equip:
http://kalia.ultimals.com/mandau/Relic-3x-Equip.jpg
Where: Wild Rabbits in West Ronfaure
How: Cap out my attack and try to get 3x damage to proc during a Sneak Attack, use the result in the damage formula to figure out where to put a multiplier of 3 to make the math work out.

Before you ask, yes my WAR sub is 29, and no I don't care. This thread is about information, so if you have nothing to contribute other than OMG YOU'RE A STUPID NOOB, the door is that way


Results: It didn't take long at all for me to get the 3x damage to proc. I guess I got lucky. The first few shots showed me what my normal crit cap was:
http://kalia.ultimals.com/mandau/Relic-3x-FirstHit.jpg
http://kalia.ultimals.com/mandau/Relic-3x-SecondHit.jpg
http://kalia.ultimals.com/mandau/Relic-3x-ThirdHit.jpg

The third one surprised me a little, I expected that with such high attack I would always hit the cap. I guess this was randomness or something? I had a few low ones later as well, but enough 432s to convince me that 432 was indeed the crit cap.

For those who aren't savvy at FFXI math, the maximum possible crit is equal to (D + fSTR) * 3, where D is the base damage of your weapon, and fSTR changes depending on the mob you're fighting. Luckily, since I was fighting something I was capped on, fSTR is easy to calculate. It's simply Floor(D / 9) + 8 = 4+8 = 12. If Sneak Attack is being used, then the max possible damage is (D + DEX + fSTR) * 3. In my case, I determined 432 to be the crit cap, so I can solve for fSTR using basic algebra. It works out to 12, by solving (39 + 93 + fSTR)*3 = 432. Of course, I already knew it was 12 anyway by the equation earlier in this paragraph, but this is a nice little sanity check.

Conclusion: my STR is capped, D=39, DEX=93, fSTR=12

Now all I need to do is get triple damage to proc during a Sneak Attack. Luckily it happened on the very next hit.

http://kalia.ultimals.com/mandau/Relic-3x-FourthHit.jpg

Goal now is to figure out where to multiply by 3 on the LHS to make the RHS equal to 738. It's easy to figure out by eyeballing the equation.

[(39 + 12)*3 + 93]*3 = 738


Conclusion: Relic 3x damage formula is as follows:

[(D + fSTR)*3 + p*DEX + q*AGI] * pDIF

where p = 1 if using Sneak Attack, and 0 otherwise, and q = 1 if using Trick Attack, and 0 otherwise.

--------------------------
Edit: Based on a post later in this thread, the general formula for relic damage proc is

[Floor[(D + fSTR)*k] + p*DEX + q*AGI] * pDIF

where k=2.5 or 3 depending on the relic weapon, p = 1 if using Sneak Attack and 0 otherwise, and q = 1 if using Trick Attack and 0 otherwise.

[Seraphise]

underleveled sub.

[Senoska]

my math skills fail :< I dont understand any of this shit :< w=+t+f/f(u+c*k)

[divisortheory]

Before you ask, yes my WAR sub is 29

old news

[yrpaine]

underleveled sub.

learn to read numbnuts



was the 738 your highest triple dmg crit?

[divisortheory]

was the 738 your highest triple dmg crit?

I tried for about 45 minutes to get it to happen a second time and couldn't. Keep in mind I can only use Sneak Attack once a minute, lol. I'll try again tomorrow, but given that it just "magically" worked out, it's hard to believe it was a coincidence.

[RKenshin]

I did a few tests on my GK's crit crap too, I don't have snazzy pictures but my crit cap was 316. Then, when the 2.5 damage landed it capped at 786. Not sure if those numbers help too!

[Mifaco]

level your sub and stop using sardonyx rings.

[Metah]

To be fair there is no door over this way . Just a scroll bar.

[archibaldcrane]

The third one surprised me a little, I expected that with such high attack I would always hit the cap. I guess this was randomness or something? I had a few low ones later as well, but enough 432s to convince me that 432 was indeed the crit cap.

Just remember that just because your "level adjusted melee ratio" is capped (what people mean when they say they have "capped attack" there is still a pDIF variance randomizer, that in this situation (critical hit, capped attack) will put you between 2.6 and 3 - hence your occasional lower hits.

[doofy]

Makes sense, I was wondering why Mandaus weren't getting 1200-1500 SA's and TA's when it proc'd, and this explains it. Sucks that it doesnt add THf main DEX or AGI before multiplying when SA/TA is used, but I guess that would be a bit broken.

-Vyzrael (Asura)

[hotpiercedguy]

People who gimp themselves for relic make baby jesus cry.

[Demosthenes11]

level your sub and stop using sardonyx rings.

Mifaco----------*whoosh*------------>Mysticmaker Profblix

[Tekki]

So um, Ive never studied the math of FFXI but after reading what you wrote. The multiplier is ONLY multiplied to the base dmg and can be effected by the fSTR only? If I read it wrong then my question is what does the x3 proc directly modify in FFXI terms.

[Positron]

Yes Tekki, assuming Kalia's test results were correct, the 3x damage multiplier is calculated after the wepaon's base DMG and fSTR (the function which compares your STR with enemy VIT), multiplying the sum of them by three. This happens before DEX (for SA), AGI (for TA). Then all of those factors (DMG, fSTR, relic 3x damage, DEX, AGI) are added together and multiplied by pDIF (the function which takes into account the difference between your attack and enemy defense and the difference between your levels, this is capped at 3 for melee critical hit, which is why Kalia multiplied by 3 again). The end result is the damage your hit does.

The bottom line: Assuming these tests are correct, relic triple damage multiplies only the sum of your base DMG and STR vs. VIT function by 3.

[archibaldcrane]

The multiplier is ONLY multiplied to the base dmg and can be effected by the fSTR only?

Yes, that is pretty much it - it's a 3X multiplication of the sum of WDMG (which you can't change for any given relic obviously...save Spharai i guess?) and fSTR, which you can affect up to a point - Mandau caps at +12. That resulting # is then multiplied by the result of the pDIF function, which is a random # pulled from a specific range of #s that is determined by your attack vs. enemy defense, with a level-adjustment thrown in if the enemy is higher level than you.

Those two things = voila - the # on the screen.

edit: damnit 2 post positron beat meh.

[VZX]

OK, that tells something for THF main.
edit : oops

[Akanei]

level your sub and stop using sardonyx rings.

Mifaco----------*whoosh*------------>Mysticmaker Profblix

I honestly can say I was whooshed.

[Vobent]

I can honestly say I'm an idiot.

But, uh..the more STR/atk you load up on the more your 3x hit procs right?
Flame rings for TP arn't so lol any more..heh

[VZX]

I can honestly say I'm an idiot.

But, uh..the more STR/atk you load up on the more your 3x hit procs right?
Flame rings for TP arn't so lol any more..heh

huh?
STR/atk increase the proc rate of triple damage?