THF co-tank on chariots?

[Tsukasaz]

Possible? MNK (obviously) + THF able to successfully tank chariots with RDM RDM BRD support? Y/N?

Guessing no but figured I'd ask you people.

[Slott]

Possible? MNK (obviously) + THF able to successfully tank chariots with RDM RDM BRD support? Y/N?

Guessing no but figured I'd ask you people.

I've tanked Arra/zhayolm and SSR bosses like that. Bhaf boss eats my face. SSR boss usually I don't like to main tank (I make sure im 2nd or 3rd on hate and kite entire charm phase so nobody but a melee or two get charmed each time)

(And I have taru hp)

[Neosutra]

No.

Low DoT, low subtle blow, much much higher TP spam from bosses.

Thf is a reaaallly bad choice for chariot tanking. You could probably pull it off for a bit with 2 healers there i guess =/

[Tsukasaz]

Yeah we changed jobs but that did make me curious, along with the high delay daggers and that subtle blow setup someone posted a few days ago.

[Shassira]

Uh... ofcourse it's possible, not only that, this is absolutely fake:

Low DoT, low subtle blow, much much higher TP spam from bosses.

Our Battelcads do less TP moves with MNK + THF than with MNK + SAM. Try it before you ditch it and if you tried it, try again because it was done wrong.

We do regularly Battleclad and Long-Armed like this. Battleclad goes MNK+THF tanking only and Long-Armed goes MNK+THF+BST front lines (if you are wondering why bst or interested, check the SS thread).

I see absolutely no reason why we wouldn't be able to do this in Armored Chariot (which is a total snooze fest of a fight). Long-Bowed might be a different story, since HM landing could just say goodbye to all the hate your THF has built, and they quite some time to build hate. Ofcourse, if it's nerfed, it's just a hard hitting machine, so should be possible. We haven't tried this one.

So to answer the OP:
It's possible. Ideal maybe not, but in some setups you may definitely want to do this, specialy since you are obviously aiming to low man.
It's not as hard as it sounds. The downside is your THF has no damaging 2hour, so you may need a bit more time to pull these fights off. Also, your THF is gonna need erase every time he/she gets bound, since they need to move around to maximize efficiency (SA, TA, Collaborator having a low range, etc). Plan accordingly and it's easy enough.

[Slott]

In fairness, it depends on your thief. I wouldn't trust a subpar or "average" thief to tank a chariot. A mandau thief can tank fine with homam, some evasion gear and good mages. Sharing hate is important. You tank for a while, trick onto the other melee when your shadows are down, when you see other melee get hit, collaborate, you tank for a bit, yada yada. It's easy for thief to generate hate since they can easily go behind for SA weaponskill, swing behind the other melee ready to trick as soon as shadow timers are too fucked.

[richardd]

In fairness, it depends on your thief. I wouldn't trust a subpar or "average" thief to tank a chariot. A mandau thief can tank fine with homam, some evasion gear and good mages. Sharing hate is important. You tank for a while, trick onto the other melee when your shadows are down, when you see other melee get hit, collaborate, you tank for a bit, yada yada. It's easy for thief to generate hate since they can easily go behind for SA weaponskill, swing behind the other melee ready to trick as soon as shadow timers are too fucked.

exactly. I can see a good thf pulling this off. Especially if he/she has experience in tanking on chariots on other jobs before. In fact, i would dare to say, i feel safer with another -good- thf than i would with a -sub par- mnk as far as co-tanking goes. But thfs like that dont exist on garuda!

[Neosutra]

What kind of shitty mnks do you have that a thf could share hate with them (even a relic thf) on a chariot boss w/o doing accomplice.

[Tsukasaz]

Interesting responses. Thanks for the replies :O

Shassira, does your THF put max subtle blow in every slot possible then do enmity or what?

[Slott]

What kind of shitty mnks do you have that a thf could share hate with them (even a relic thf) on a chariot boss w/o doing accomplice.

Our monks aren't shitty. A thief is capable of extremely high damage. A 1000-1200 damage weaponskill (it can go higher, i'm talking conservatively) has high a high hate spike. It's easy for a thief (Or a good/great one at least) to keep up with a monk on hate, if they don't trick attack, easily.

[Lordwafik]

I've done it as THF, but I couldn't hold hate off our monks , and I'm a (this is sad to say) "cookie cutter" mandau blau thief. They were hitting for 80s, I was hitting for 20s But my WS's did nice damage. Then again I've only tried it once (on LAC) and I don't think I got a pannus.

I could have shared more hate if accomplice wasn't shitty and I could accomplice targets from a range of 15 or so so I can eat the mages hate. Accomplicing the main tank is no good idea since it'll reduce their hate while not reducing the mages hate buildup.

[richardd]

What kind of shitty mnks do you have that a thf could share hate with them (even a relic thf) on a chariot boss w/o doing accomplice.

Trust me, i still have the same mindset as you when it comes to this. Theres no way a thf is gonna peel off a god mnk, especially one with 5/5 usu and full merits. But i was talking about 6 or lower man situations, which only happened to me once about a year ago. I had a co-tank as a THF in SSR with 5 ppl and 1 guy used as a stud for his skadi head. He was accompliceing alot obviously, but we still managed to pull it off. He didnt have hate all that much, but if the thf is really motivated and has 8/8 dagger and knows how to play the job to its full potential, he really can do some good dmg lol. The reason i said i would rather tank alongside a good thf than a mediocre mnk was just the versatility the thf has to offer in the "shit hits the fan" moments compared to mnk. Like brainjack at the wrong moment, or a full powered homing missle. But this is coming from a guy who solo tanks alot of bosses anyway. I got SS's to prove <_>;

[Lordwafik]

THF can tank everything else in the zone plenty fine if they have a strong WS build. All it takes usually is 1 WS to snag it off the MNK, Mercy is usually one that gives me all the hate as I can put 800-1700 depending on buffs and crap. I'm sure a similar shark bite/DE/Evi build can do similar.

[Mojo]

It works fine, have done it on most of the bosses. Accomplice and such to maintain a steady balance of hate.

[Deadgye]

I've actually been thinking about attempting this recently since our second monk usually fails horribly due to having to sign directions to his wife. I've got decent gear sets for tp/tank/ws. If you had one of the main healers stand close enough to you for collaborator but far enough so that they don't get hit by aoe attacks I can see this being really beneficial. Anybody that's done this before think that +37eva, 9%haste and +9enmity is good enough? (Looking at 22% haste from gear for utsusemi as well.)

[Tsukasaz]

I've always thought that Collaborator only works at like 6' or less? Aren't most AoEs 9.9'?

[Slott]

I believe it's 8 distance. Within a minute or two, melees are capped hate anyway, and mages should never have the issue of having hate pulled.

just tried it and worked at 8.3 bleh ;x maybe under 9 then.


And don't get me wrong. I'd prefer 2 monk tanks usually, or monk+war, whatever, than tanking personally. But when it's necessary I'm more than capable of doing it, and holding hate.

[Tsukasaz]

thanks.

[Shassira]

Interesting responses. Thanks for the replies :O

Shassira, does your THF put max subtle blow in every slot possible then do enmity or what?

I cannot answer exactly for her gear, but i do know she's not focusing on haste. Regardless, to make this clear, our THF has used Accomplice on our mnk and it works fine, it's really hard to unglue the bosses away from either of them when the fight's already 2-3 minutes in.

I assume another damage dealer would present a problem to this idea, but since this is all in the framework of low maning, your other 2 or 3 members are likely to be support. In other words, no BLM nuking on the sides, or RNG shooting.

Without using Collaborator, I don't think i've ever seen our thf pull hate. Ofcourse, the mnk ends up recovering the target fast enough. What all this means is that your MNK must be capable of single tanking most of the fight if it comes to it. This is perfectly possible, but you do need someone that knows what they are doing.

In closing, this is a non optimal, harder way of doing it, but THF is an excelent DD for the run and you'll never have the excusse of "we didn't have TH4..." when refering to the shitty drop rates in the zone :3

PS: Not to doubt what Wafik said, but i remember hearing my THF say Collaborator was really short range (as in, annoyingly short) so I assumed it was around 10'ish, like Snarl.

[Tsukasaz]

Yes, it is a very annoying range; also, I don't have TH4. Let's hope what they said about upping the drop rate is true.