Nyzul Party Setup Suggestions

[Sechs]

Hello, as much as this concerns a particular event, since this is a very newbie question, I guess this is the right place to ask it.

Anybody mind to share their experience about the usefulness of jobs in Nyzul Isle? Which setups?

2 supporters + 4 dd with /NIN?
1 RDM + 5 DD with /NIN?

How does DNC perform there? SCH? PLD/WAR?
Is BRD useful or better to get more DDs with /NIN?
BLU/anything? Any use?
Is WHM a waste of party slots compared to RDM and SCH?
Would BST be of any use since the non-NM normal mobs should be charmable as far as I know?
What about special job combinations like DRG/WHM?
How does RNG perform there?
Anybody succeded in reaching the upper floors with a "standard" party setup rather than a TP burn one??

[Skjie]

I always go BRD, having light based sleep is very handy.

[Sechs]

So I guess that means WHM can have its uses too with Repose, maybe better with /SMN or /SCH for better MP saving, and lotsa ethers or similar stuff.

Skjie if you don't mind me asking, what is the typical setup your group uses? You as BRD and what about the other 5 members? How far inside Nyzul did you get so far? Any comment on things that could improve your setup?

[Vigilia]

RDM (or a really good WHM) + BRD and 4x DD has always been the best on the runs that I've been on. I've not systematically cleared any Nyzul but I've been dragged along by a couple of different statics on pretty much every floor at some point and the smoothest runs have always been TP burn setups.

BRD is broken, especially if they have Storm Fife because they add miles to your group's longevity. And it's nice throwing on the occasional Soul Voice songs on the bosses and destroying them in about 45secs.

BST and BLU do ok from what I've seen, PLD/WAR gtfo but well dd-geared PLD/NIN is pretty much the same as bringing a BLU or BST, especially if your other 3 melees are decent. PLD/NIN who knows to use Cure III/IV (and if your main healer is RDM to refresh them) also takes off some of the edge of keeping everyone alive solo. What you really need is a solid MNK/NINs and/or WAR/NINs in the group who can tank anything thrown their way, THF for treasure hunter and then your 4th DD can be pretty much anything as long as they have some degree of usefulness. "Proper" DD jobs like RNG, SAM, DRK, DRG etc. are obviously all really good additions. I've gone DRG/WHM a few times (otherwise always BRD), it's ok and better than going DRG/melee tbh because again you'll take some of the stress off the healer and on floors where you need to kill all you can split the group in half and move along different paths because you in practice have two healers. It's a bit meh for bosses as you won't have shadows that would eat most of the aoes (not that you wouldn't fanatics it up on bosses anyway though) but for just floor climbs it's great.

WHM is better than SCH imo, just because you get haste and killing speed is generally what makes or breaks the runs and it's not like you can't Repose the occasional extra aggro just as well as a RDM can Sleep II. Plus WHMs can /SCH for sublimation now anyway and making your MP last the whole 5 floors is another big issue. The difference is though, that even a mediocre RDM can main heal Nyzul but a WHM needs to know their game a little bit better. Take a WHM who's good enough that you'd merit with them.

All the high end runs I've been on have been RDM, BRD and 4xdd/nin but those dds include a pld and thf so I guess you could theoretically call it a "standard" party setup but the mentality and playstyle is that of a TP burn.

[Sechs]

Very detailed post, thanks Vig.
One question since I'm a bit noob on BRD, wouldn't it be an issue for them to correctly cast the right songs with ranges etc, since the party will be constatly moving and might be splitting on some floors? That's what I've always been wondering for BRD in Nyzul, but from what you say that doesn't really sound like an issue.

Does BLM really suck that much in Nyzul? And any experience with PUP? Maybe with WHM automaton. I'm a pretty leet PUP gear wise, but once again I'm afraid I would never reach the damage I can reach on my MNK, and that's without counting my tanking capabilities when I'm on Salvage setup.

[benny]

Honestly any reasonable setup with DDs and healing/support will be ok. If you're not doing boss floors (and sometimes if you are), you can even fudge the tank role with something like SAM. The setup my group uses is NIN DRG THF BLM WHM BRD, but we swap the backline to SMN WHM BRD for TAU boss runs. What we do a lot instead of splitting to two groups as I hear a lot of people do on kill all floors if have multiple people pulling while the core group (melees+WHM) kills in one direction. It works well enough for us.

The one thing I can definitely say is, you'll probably be sorry if you don't have a THF for boss floors. The drop rate is annoying enough even with TH...

[SamanosukeShiva]

MNKs are good, as long as you're not on the toau boss floor

[Tsuko_Asura]

The song thing can be annoying because of how quickly things die, but its nothing you can't get used to. You'll learn timing eventually.

Black Mage is frowned upon in Nyzul purely by virtue of the fact that it is, for all intensive purposes, a TP-burn. Their damage is just fine against most things(especially pudding/jelly floors), but the fact that they're bound by their MP seals the deal.

I can't imagine that a good Puppetmaster would be doing more damage than a good Monk, but the fact that most things in Nyzul are ~DC makes one of your job's main disadvantages fairly moot. For the most part, your accuracy and damage should be pretty good, unless its something that everyone is having a hard time hitting(QQTH come to mind).

Otherwise, Vigs pretty much nailed it.

[LinktheDeme]

DRG/WHM and BLU/NIN are really good in this

[Byrd]

We've done 2xtank, DD (always a THF on boss floors), BLU, WHM/BLM and RDM/WHM. We split into two groups for kill all enemies floors. We swapped the BLU from BLM as BLM is completely useless on ToAU bosses, and the No White Magic floors aren't 100% failures anymore as Magic Fruit can be a lifesaver, depending on the victory conditions. We do WHM/BLM instead of /SCH for Sleepga, particularly on charmed NIN's (it's quicker than Banishga -- Sleep). Although everyone in the group has 2-8 jobs levelled, none of us have BRD, so that's not an option for us. We typically have time for 6-7 floors/run.

I really think any well-balanced party can beat Nyzul; there is no "right" answer. Pick the jobs people are most comfortable with, and make adjustments as needed. No two strategies are likely to be exactly the same.

[Sechs]

Honestly any reasonable setup with DDs and healing/support will be ok.

I did Nyzul loooong time ago, with an old pt we got up to uhm around 40 I think, 2nd boss. But we had a disc already I think.
Setup back then was RDM, WHM, MNK, WAR, NIN, MNK-RNG.
Tried with a RNG first, but that guy didn't like it so he came as taru gimp MNK. His RNG was leet instead, I'd say we would have been better off with a pimp RNG than with a gimp MNK.
NIN tried tanking gear at first, but when he saw he couldn't keep hate he started using Togi and DD gear. WAR was ok but the guy had an even better equipped SAM, that might have been better.
WHM was very good, and RDM too was nice.
Other MNK was me, I'm not leet but I think I'm a pretty nice MNK overall.

Judging from that experience I can sum up that our problems were:

1. healers running out of mp fast, especially the WHM/SMN
2. lamps were being nasty, and in several months of 4 attempts x week, we never found the "free" floor, not even once
3. Some of us, me before everyone else, were having problems with orientation. Sometimes someone would say "I found the target we have to kill, it's here". Yeah but here were? It's hard to move around, I was usually getting lost. As much as Nyzul floors can have I think 7-8 possible setups, it's hard to tell which one it is at first glance, and it's hard to tell where other members are from your current position. That was really a pain. Would it have been too hard for them to let us access to a map?
4. We were being slow, timed out on 4th/5th floor of a group of 5 several times, timed out on bosses a few times, and another time we lost Askar Boots because I couldn't pass in time (had like 5 seconds left, and I was lagged, poor Fuse )
5. Getting items at start sometimes was being nasty (couldn't they make so the timer starts AFTER you get items at start?)
6. Aggro was sometimes nasty (I hate true sound mobs like gears, and I suck at avoiding aggro, can't help it, I've always been bad with this sort of stuff)

Now for the slow issues, it's probably a matter of practice. Maybe after 1-2 months you start being faster? (but we did make runs for 2ish months actually...)
Maybe a BRD/WHM in place of that WHM could have helped us a lot.

The one thing I can definitely say is, you'll probably be sorry if you don't have a THF for boss floors. The drop rate is annoying enough even with TH...

Our main goal would be to get everyone to floor 100, Runic Key, and Weapons.
Armor farming would start after that. I honestly don't care much for the gear in thear, as much as I wouldn't spit on a few Askar pieces, I definitely wouldn't :D


@Samanosuke
Why ToAU bosses? I think all bosses are the same when you use Fanatic's and similar temp items? Also, Hydra is supposed to be melee-friendly, if he's anything close to the real Hydra, no?

[solsovly]

BLM sucks in nyzul, it's doable but even the melee resistant mobs don't take that long to kill.


How does DNC perform there? SCH? PLD/WAR?
Never had a dancer, Scholar is ok utility, about the same as a backline whm or rdm. PLD/NIN DD > PLD/WAR sponge.

Is BRD useful or better to get more DDs with /NIN?
BRD is useful in every event period. Light based sleep/finale are very nice.

BLU/anything? Any use?
BLU is excellent utility. Light based AOE sleeps, aoe stoneskin, non white magic based curing and headbutt are very very useful when you don't know what mobs to expect.

Is WHM a waste of party slots compared to RDM and SCH?
WHM is fine, especially with the meds.

Would BST be of any use since the non-NM normal mobs should be charmable as far as I know?
BST cannot charm anything in nyzul, but the jugpets wreck EP-DC mobs... which is the majority of what you fight in here. Snarl makes him relatively maintenance free. But at the end of the day, interchangable with another DD.
What about special job combinations like DRG/WHM?
Pretty nice, especially if you are light on healing.
How does RNG perform there?
Annoying when they pull hate and make the mobs chase them, excellent for mobs with bad AOEs like chariots.
Anybody succeded in reaching the upper floors with a "standard" party setup rather than a TP burn one??
You can pretty much bring any combination to nyzul and win. It's just a question of five floors or shooting for 8-10.

[Questionable]

FWIW, My group can clear/climb with 5 @ any floor, even 100's with temp items of course. We can sometimes go grab 6-7 floors if the floors are easy.

Since about a year ago, all our runs were done without a BRD or COR, mages usually only consist of WHM/SCH and RDM/WHM or RDM/SCH. Melees we shift this around alot due to people not showing up, but from what's strong and important is:
BLU - Absolute Necessary, spamming spells, light based sleep/dispel, melee or magic damage, wlegs, erasega(with merit JA thing) and blue based curing when white magic restricted. Can function when JA or WS restricted pretty well.

DRG - Pretty good other than AOE can kill wyvern. I usually come to this now recently as TH doesn't really affect drops. Though for first 70% of our runs I came THF, DRG helps to cure and saves mp on mages and can DD/Angon, 2hr. But I feel this job may slack the mages as they get too comfortable.

THF - Good job, able to tank/solo and deal decent damage with partner. Flee+striders = able to travel fast to runic portal and addition of hide PD etc.

MNK, SAM are good due to 2hrs if you need them running out on time, decent soloers and tankers.

WAR - semi useful, great DD but not good at defensive or soloing.

NIN - Not as useful, poor DD even at my NIN's level compared to other DD. Nothing special NIN can do.

Rest of jobs never experimented.
Usually split into 2 groups, 1 mage 2 melee and kill like that. Stick together on hard family or NM boss or lamps.

[benny]

BLM sucks in nyzul, it's doable but even the melee resistant mobs don't take that long to kill.

Having played BLM in Nyzul a lot, I feel like it's a matter of matching your playstyle to the event. If all a BLM is doing there is nuking and resting MP, he's doing it wrong. For kill all floors, I mostly pull and sleep mobs near the melees, and generally only nuke if it's a magic weak mob. If we run into an NM, or a leader floor, being able to SC+MB (wut) can be really useful since they tend to have kind of a lot of HP. Having four sleep spells and being able to sleep a group of mobs for 90sec at a time is often useful on annoying gear floors. With all these little situations, plus the fact that MP management gets easier with meds and Ballad+1 instrument, I guess I just feel like BLM gets a bum rap in Nyzul.

[Toshiko]

we did 5 runs of nyzul last night, floors 96-100.

THF RDM BRD WAR WAR BLM
THF RDM BRD WAR MNK BLM
THF RDM BRD WAR WAR DRK

all these setups worked, and we rotated people playing certain jobs to get more 100% drop weapons. BRD is great in nyzul, even if you cant keep songs up 100%

[Reapz]

My previous static while I was on Valefor was WAR WAR MNK THF BRD WHM, that worked great and now on Bismarck my setup is MNK MNK THF SAM WHM SCH which is also working great even as a 5 sometimes. So as long as its 4 melee + support should be fine, I do miss BRD though D:

[Questionable]

Having played BLM in Nyzul a lot, I feel like it's a matter of matching your playstyle to the event. If all a BLM is doing there is nuking and resting MP, he's doing it wrong. For kill all floors, I mostly pull and sleep mobs near the melees, and generally only nuke if it's a magic weak mob. If we run into an NM, or a leader floor, being able to SC+MB (wut) can be really useful since they tend to have kind of a lot of HP. Having four sleep spells and being able to sleep a group of mobs for 90sec at a time is often useful on annoying gear floors. With all these little situations, plus the fact that MP management gets easier with meds and Ballad+1 instrument, I guess I just feel like BLM gets a bum rap in Nyzul.

I thought you quit, but came back? You're kinda like this past LS member I know who's only job (until recently) used to be BLM. He kept insisting that BLM was useful everywhere. Anyways although that statement may be true and all jobs can be used to a certain degree in any situation, for Nyzul, BLM isn't useless but it isn't useful as much as typical nyzul setup.

If there was a spot in a group where it was MAGE MAGE, MELEEx3, I would pick a melee over BLM. Unless the group was only 1 Mage, then BLM could suffice for nuke/sleep/heal, like a RDM but no haste/refresh.

Just pointing out, anything can work, 6 DNC can work, 5BST and 1PUP can work, whatever, but know that BLM isn't the best job to bring to Nyzul. Yes I do have BLM as well as one of my 75 jobs.

Plus Benny, you have BRD now, use that, much more better.

[Sechs]

So, unlike what I was thinking, it seems like people is succeeding in going up Nyzul floors even with kinda "standard" setups and not necessarily TP burn ones.

That leads me to think that maybe Nyzul is a bit more "permissive" than I thought it was, when it comes to jobs setups for a 6 men party.
Well, I guess that's good ^^''

I'll experiment a bit. Sounds like PUP could be a nice toy for no-white-magic floors. If only you could quickly swap among automatons, without having to re-equip them fully everytime, the versatility of PUP could shine in Nyzul.
The /WAR job traits and Berserk could compensate for the lack of damage, as much as I don't know if that would cut compared to /NIN for shadows. Depends on the floors mobs I guess... when you're fighting mobs who wipe your shadows with AoEs (like gears for example, or chariots, or many others), /NIN loses much of it's usefulness compared to other options. Well, at least for PUP I mean, it doesn't cut what you can virtually get from /WAR (especially since a PUP will rarely steal hate, and even if he does, he can always swap it with the Group 2 Ability)

[MarkM.]

My set up has been Rdm/whm Whm/blm Brd/whm Drk/sam Thf/nin Mnk/nin (or Sam/war) and we wreck shop. If you are just climbing and not going to do a boss floor, especially ToA, I would say brd/whm x2 and replace the whm would be pretty good too.

[Aux]

Basically Cliff notes: You find what you can get out of your current group. Works differently for everyone.
However, certain notes:
PLD isn't really needed
DNC/BST kinda useless for melee
SCH great for floor climbs, RDM almost always mandatory for boss fights
THF is highly sought for upping the drop rate on 20/40/60/80/100
WHM generally a plus for Toau NM's
BLM resists a hell of a ton on Toau NM's (Making them somewhat useless 60-100)

Here is a great guide I tinkered with when I started Nyzul a year ago. Then started working to figure out the best job combo with my group.

You may find it useful for you.
Part 1 http://priphea.livejournal.com/47554.html#cutid1
Part 2 http://priphea.livejournal.com/47729.html#cutid1
Part 3 http://priphea.livejournal.com/47961.html#cutid1