Dagger choice.. X's vs BD.

[Saeriel]

I've searched on this.. but can't find anything that really helps explain what I'm trying to ask, so I decided to post.

I will firstly admit, I don't fully understand the maths behind the game.. I kinda get it, but, not everything.

Now - my question is, with the new patch having damage to a constant (kinda), if you can get attack high enough to normalise, is X's worth using over Blau Dolch now (for the bonus crit damage)?

Because, if crit's are capped, then - would it's effect not have any impact, therefore making the bonus worthless or would it still have an impact over and above the crit cap.

I'm at the point now as a Thf, where I want to look at getting some more gear for it, and it's a questions of whether to farm or do the ENM for BD, or do Requiem of Sin repeatedly.

I'm hoping some better Thieves than I, with a greater understanding of both, would be able to help point me in the right direction.

- Sae.

[Casey_]

the crit bonus alone from x's knife should be worth it, as well as the rank increase on x's knife vs blau's unlatent'd rank.

i'm no thf though. i just crunch numbers a little but im kinda new.. in before a real numberman comes and tears me a new one

Also i've not considered the new pdif/cratio for 1handers. take this as you will

[Kiarax]

Get both? I think X/BD is the best non-relic dagger pairing. You can do both BC's once a week anyway so there's no need to be restricted to working on one at a time.

[vagus]

People still sub /nin for XP PT?

[Kiarax]

People don't do anything other then XPing?

[Starr]

Yeah X's/Blau if /NIN, if /WAR I'd take Blau/Viking personally.

[Lordwafik]

People still sub /nin for XP PT?

I prefer to /nin in pickup exp parties because it means I just might live. LS exp pt, depends on camp, i prefer to /war though.

[Yutuyu]

X's knife has an effect where critical hits will do 10% more damage and is 10.15 DPS. Blau is 11.12 DPS when latent is active.

Obviously X's knife will lead to much larger numbers when you crit (SA WS, random crits, Evisceration), but Blau Dolch will be larger WS numbers when you don't crit (more attack, only 1 less D, acc, and you won't cap fSTR on an XP mob).

If you use dancing edge religiously, I can't really see X's Knife being better. For HNM X's Knife is obviously going to be better because you will actually be SATAing.

[Aurara]

X's knife has an effect where critical hits will do 10% more damage and is 10.15 DPS. Blau is 11.12 DPS when latent is active.

Obviously X's knife will lead to much larger numbers when you crit (SA WS, random crits, Evisceration), but Blau Dolch will be larger WS numbers when you don't crit (more attack, only 1 less D, acc, and you won't cap fSTR on an XP mob).

If you use dancing edge religiously, I can't really see X's Knife being better. For HNM X's Knife is obviously going to be better because you will actually be SATAing.

I hope you're kidding

[ringthree]

X's knife has an effect where critical hits will do 10% more damage and is 10.15 DPS. Blau is 11.12 DPS when latent is active.

If you are dual-wielding, comparing DPS between the daggers is irrelevent because the delays are combined, you will want to consider maximum damage.

Obviously X's knife will lead to much larger numbers when you crit (SA WS, random crits, Evisceration), but Blau Dolch will be larger WS numbers when you don't crit (more attack, only 1 less D, acc, and you won't cap fSTR on an XP mob).

Blau latent applies to both hands.

If you use dancing edge religiously, I can't really see X's Knife being better. For HNM X's Knife is obviously going to be better because you will actually be SATAing.

X's Knife modifies SA and TA too, so it will effect all your WS. As I understand it, X's Knife/Blau is best for non-relic.

[Aurara]

X's knife has an effect where critical hits will do 10% more damage and is 10.15 DPS. Blau is 11.12 DPS when latent is active.

If you are dual-wielding, comparing DPS between the daggers is irrelevent because the delays are combined, you will want to consider maximum damage.

Obviously X's knife will lead to much larger numbers when you crit (SA WS, random crits, Evisceration), but Blau Dolch will be larger WS numbers when you don't crit (more attack, only 1 less D, acc, and you won't cap fSTR on an XP mob).

Blau latent applies to both hands.

If you use dancing edge religiously, I can't really see X's Knife being better. For HNM X's Knife is obviously going to be better because you will actually be SATAing.

X's Knife modifies SA and TA too, so it will effect all your WS. As I understand it, X's Knife/Blau is best for non-relic.

In before "but what about P.harpe/blau!?"

[skurlover]

Ring, since you seem to know so much about this dagger, you just got put on the "Get Skur a X's Knife list."

[dawdr]

Two weeks back now I got my X's knife, and I have changed from being Blau/Sirocco to X's knife/Blau for pretty much anything. The difference in power, hit for hit, is drastic. My average normal crit on colibri was better than 100 damage, and this is for both hands obviously. From what I've seen, the increase in power more than covers the added 51 delay X's has over Sirocco.

In the little time I got to play with it before the update, I did get a pickup group in Nyzul on colibri. If I can find the parse I'll post it, but there was a second thief in the pt running the standard sushi haste set for thief, while I go with a heavy accuracy setup for meat, and I was pulling because...well, pickup party. The two of us parsed as the top DD's on the birds, with us basically right on top of each other for top DD, both of us swapping lead bird to bird. Were I not pulling, it's safe to say that I probably would've been the top solidly, even being much slower to swing. But I have no idea on the other thief's merits, and our gear setups were drastically different so take it with a grain of salt.

Honestly though, do not count on ever getting an X's knife, as it is by no means a common drop. I did the fight for eight months before I saw the drop. Scythes and spears a plenty, but that knife is brutal. Adding to the fun, there IS exp loss for the fight if you die, and the chest can load with anywhere from 0-3 items from what I've seen. People complain about Xolotl's drop rate, but imagine that he only pops once a week with a really diluted loot pool and you'll have an idea what you're up against.

[Yutuyu]

X's knife does NOT modify TA. It only modifies crits. TA is not a guaranteed crit. Even with a guaranteed crit, on dancing edge it will only effect the first hit of many to come. It's a nice boost on the first attack, but the lack of ATK/ACC+ on Blau for all of the following makes it lackluster at best. Blau's DPS is better and it'll be better for dancing edge which is your best bet on merit mobs.

The title is "X's vs. BD." not X's vs. BD vs. X's & BD dual wield.

[Saeriel]

*sigh* I didn't word the opening post well enough, and I think many people have only read the title.

I implied (but not stated).. /War was going on as I'd need it to get a high enough attack.. hence why it's a choice.

Also - I'm aware of the pro's/con's of each weapon.. what they do.

What I need to know really.. is this:

Does X's Knife ignore the damage caps for crits (assuming I can get my attack high enough to hit a constant damage level) - or rather go over it, adding extra damage on, as my understanding of the knife was that it increased the pdif on a critical hit (and didn't just add a seperate amount of damage on top).

- Sae

Edit: Oh, and Yutu, at this level of Thf, TA *is* a guarantee'd crit.

[Loren]

Work toward both.
If your time/effort is limited, then work on Blau first since it's far easier to obtain and can be paired with any endgame dagger for strong results (Harpe, Sirocco, etc.)

My group is 0/34 on any XYZ weapons or cash drops whatsoever, so acknowledge that possibility before diving in.

[Nighteagle]

I use P Harpe/blau and I'd have to say I prefer it over X's Knife/Blau. theres a .1 second delay in damage, and P Harpe has 3 more base DMG for WS. That easily makes up for higher crits and on WS. Plus on end game for genbu/seiryu/etc I have better chance to not hit 0's. Also X's Knife is dagger only for crits+, so it dont help blau crits go higher.

[Elesirdur]

Dawdr I'm glad you posted, because I was about to say how fucking shitty the drop rate is on X's Knife. I can't think of how many Urushi's we threw away in those months of doing Requiem of Sin.

[ringthree]

Ring, since you seem to know so much about this dagger, you just got put on the "Get Skur a X's Knife list."

No problem.

Oh and Skur, is this sig-worthy?

X's knife does NOT modify TA. It only modifies crits. TA is not a guaranteed crit.

[Loren]

Plus on end game for genbu/seiryu/etc I have better chance to not hit 0's. Also X's Knife is dagger only for crits+, so it dont help blau crits go higher.

These are both incorrect.
- if pDIF roll is a 0, both daggers hit for 0. If it's 0.1, both daggers hit for 3 dmg.
- X's enhances both hands' criticals (and possibly ranged weapon, tests are mixed)

P.Harpe and X's are too close to make any broad proclamations, but keep in mind that JA+WS stacked will X's will add a lot more dmg than +3.