Kirin tests on Merited PUP

[Meian]

After reading that topic about that shitty PUP, Theknownninja, on Tonko's post the other day I thought I should post this to not let Theknowninja be the reference for all PUPs.

First, this is from a topic I did not too long ago on KI. Wanted to test how well PUP could do on Kirin and some of the gods in general there.
If this belongs in Newbie section then I apologize; I feel since this is sort of endgame then it probably belonged here.

Also, this is to show PUP can too be useful in some endgame such as sky as any other job. Not necessary the best or top always. "lolpup" is welcomed because it is just a post count +1 and for half of the people saying it proves their ignorance (the other half are bandwagoners)

Source for test 1: http://www.killingifrit.com/forums.php? ... 156437&d=0
Note: There is a Suzaku parse too just for kicks somewhere in this post. Sakura did very well on Suzaku and Genbu but mediocre on Byakko and Seiryu (no Eraser on the AH to counter the Paralyze...)

Meian :
I wasn't sure how to post this normally without doing it this way so...

Edit2: Sakura is the Automaton

NOTE: I came in the fight at @46%-ish, I started Parse soon as I joined
NOTE2: Someone started parse at 50% and said Chucknorris was 2nd place at 12.27% and 3rd was Sakura was 8.98%

There were 3 other blms besides the top two who parsed (Chubbs and Chucknorris) and the rest were melee dd (no smn)

3/3 Optimization 1/3 Fine-Tuning 1/3 Role Reversal 1/3 Ventriloquy (sp)

5/5 Melee

250 Skill

Attachments:
Attuner
Tension Spring II
Tension Spring I
Target Marker
Stablizer I
Heat Seeker
Hammermill
Optical Fiber
Heatsink
Auto-Repair II
Analyzer
Stealth Screen

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/8...kirin50df7.jpg
Shot at 1969-12-31

All in all, she out dd'd all of the melee. Lack of people for some reason this run... Also, I messed up three Cannibal Blades and one got resisted because of Lightsday (307 normally)

Edit: 1 Sam showed up, not none

Source for test 2: http://www.killingifrit.com/forums.php? ... &n=last#np

Meian :
Similiar as to last time with gear and merits:

PUP/WHM for curing self from Role Reversal and possible hate from Ventriloquy (sp) as well as waking up others from Sleepga and Paralyna from Seiryu pop. AF hands were kept on the whole time.

Automaton name: ~Sakura~

5/5 Automaton Melee (250 Melee skill)
3/3 Optimization
1/3 Fine-Tuning
1/3 Role Reversal
1/3 Ventriloquy


Attachments:
Attuner
Tension Spring II
Tension Spring I
Target Marker
STABLIZER II (instead of Heat Seeker this time)
Armor Plate II
Hammermill (did between 20-60's dmg on Kirin, strangely never missed)
Optical Fiber
Heatsink
Auto-Repair II
Analyzer
Stealth Screen


First test, was when I joined at 71% Kirin. Results are as followed:

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2...percentsh1.jpg
Shot at 2007-07-07


WS was as followed:
At least 8 Cannibal Blades, none resisted
2 String Clippers for 20 and 42

The WS didn't show up in the parse but were counted from what I checked





Second Test was Kirin at 97%. Results are as followed:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6...percentgp0.jpg
Shot at 2007-07-07


WS were as followed in this parse:
11 (string)
302
string miss
302
301
301
308
string miss
301
301
20 string
306
301
40 (string
302

NOTE: This is the first parse that I learned how to show Cannibal Blade (and other ws from Automaton) damage. "Ability" had to be checked to appear which you can see in this parse.

What I learned from Kirin in the last post I made was that Heat Seeker + Stabalizer I combo is better than having Stabalizer II in the long run. As for XP I am not sure since mobs will probably go down too quick for Heat Seeker to take good effect in.

In the previous post the ACC was about... 66.85%
In these two tests they were... 53.82% (71% Kirin parse) and 62.96% (97% Kirin parse)


In these two parses from today Sakura stayed up in third just barely under the merited RNG. She could have passed him if she had used Cannibal Blade everytime. 1st being Diabolos is no brainer but out SMN isn't the brightest and is often slow sometimes so I believe Sakura could've passed him.

PUP joining the Kirin fight early abling it to do Cannibal Blade several times as compared to the last post (when I joined at half %) shot up her damage rank.

Sakura stole hate several times even with Ventriloquy. Normally it was just a Tail Smash and he'd go off on his merry way. I was Tail Smashed twice also.

Once again I forgot to buy Eraser since it is cheap now on the AH to help with Sleepga and Bind (Tail Smash) from Kirin which hit Sakura a few times...


Overall, I am quite pleased how the results were far superior than the last post I made. As stated earlier, Cannibal Blade makes a difference in the damage rank if the PUP joins in early on Kirin.

If I forgot to mention anything please tell me^^ Hope to see more endgame PUP usage and data!

Heat Seeker ftw

PUP does pretty well also on trigger mobs, the only exception being Faust. Resisted most of the nukes but were constant, she pulled hate twice. Fun to use on Mother Globe since Valoredge high hp + Role Reversal. Ulli and Zippy were also grand times.

What does this tell us? It took merits and most of the best attachments (outside of Eraser) to parse that much. Obviously, harder merited players could do better than PUP and aren't rotated like BLMs.

The 2nd test was to show how it can keep up with Diabolos if you want to use that as a reference instead of just saying "everyone else sucks;" and no you can't say the SMN sux

There are a lot of PUPs that are too cheap or ignorant (aka Theknownninja in that other post Tonko put up) to show the job isn't "usually" craptacular <3
Not to say you're going to invite PUPs to your lses now but just to keep an open mind and have some more knowledge

If I had forgotten to mention something feel free to ask
*puts on his lolpup helmet*

[Tajin]

i like how you do not melee. =D>

[Ddong]

There are some things to consider first, such as what jobs were the other people who were on the parse, did they have brd, was smn focused more on curing, did you straight tank or kite?

[sleekmotorwurkz]

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6...percentgp0.jpg

Ok, now I have no gripes against pup or anything, just some observations.

1. I (think) i see 28 actual players (not avatars/puppets/sc etc) meaning that people are being swapped in and out. If the pup was in the ally the entire time and other people are being swapped, of course the puppets damage would seem to be somewhat boosted.

2. This makes no mention of what jobs the players are that are in the ally. Im going to assume this is being kited (correct me if im wrong) and if 20 of the people on that list are non-ranged dd chasing kirin around, of course a pet that can constantly attack a kited mob is going to keep higher DoT then them. On the other hand if you have an ally of summoners and rangers I would assume the puppet wouldnt have a chance. Not trying to compare pup to rng here, just saying depending on the ally setup this screenshot could mean 2 very different things.

[Ddong]

There only seems to be two "melee" jobs in there. Totem and Jayeon (one of which is suppose to be a rng?). The rest are BLMs. So this is most likely a kited fight which hampers melee dot.

[Meian]

The only ones to my knowledge that were switched in and out were BLMs for mp and MNKs for Chi Blast. If anyone else was switched out it would have been caused by a death, in this case the only one was Drizzit, OR at the last 5% put in the two other THFs.

Reason I didn't list all the jobs because I thought it was somewhat irrelvant since it is a normal kirin run we do every week like other LSes that don't TP burn, but if it is needed please do say so and I'll list them out =)

Yep, it was kited.

SMN only focused on Diabolos. He was not switched out from what I saw even when resting a few tics of MP.

We had two BRDs. One for Ballad the other was either Ballading or buffing the RNGs (Totem, being the highest RNG and merited is there on the parse)

You are indeed right about chasing Kirin the advantage would go to the Automaton because they follow the same kite path like a magnet, the only flaw they don't normally take shortcuts like some melee do that don't /follow

[Zosi]

There's another issue with kiting, it really messes up parses because you aren't necessarily in range to see everyone's actions. You can only see chat log data from a 30' bubble around you (which always includes your damage), so unless you're on top of Kirin for the whole fight, there'll always be damage that you don't see because they were out of range of you, but in range of Kirin.

[Meian]

Ahh but that was why I didn't melee, besides the low skill. I was in within range the entire time following Kirin's hip so I wouldn't get hit by his moves. Astral Flow never killed me or the Automaton with /whm Mag. Def and Pro/Shell/Stoneskin whatever it can absorb.

[ringthree]

There only seems to be two "melee" jobs in there. Totem and Jayeon (one of which is suppose to be a rng?). The rest are BLMs. So this is most likely a kited fight which hampers melee dot.

That comment begs the question though. A PUP may actually be better for a kited fight than regular melee because it can hit while the regular melee can not most of the time.

Honestly, Automatons and Wyverns are very similar it seems, they hit pretty consistantly even on Gods and they do consistant damage. (I would love to know the actual statistics of a Wyvern and Automaton). The problem with Wyverns is they can barely take any damage.

[Kimiko]

well, unless we can get a chance to straight zerg Kirin and get the parse results from that, this data is more or less unconclusive.

[ringthree]

well, unless we can get a chance to straight zerg Kirin and get the parse results from that, this data is more or less unconclusive.

Honestly, not all LS's melee burn Kirin, so the information may be valuable to those that do not.

[Warlok]

In the parse list neither player has a Ridill Warrior and I only see 1 Black Belt Monk too my knowledge and thats the first parse list.

[Meian]

lol you expect good results from tp burning Kirin as PUP ?

Anyway, the above statement is correct that not everyone tp burns Kirin.

[Sci]

It would actually be interesting to see the effects of Puppet's and Beast's rolls. If even just from a PUP/COR. I know you can only have one roll /COR and you won't get the job specific bonus, but if you're not engaging, it shouldn't hurt you much.

I'm actually more interested in how those rolls could benefit avatar BPs (because my LS has no PUPs), but most players I know with pet jobs describe accuracy and attack similar to voodoo or witchcraft. I mean, look at the wiki on it. http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Enhances_Avatar_Attack

I've not seen much useful data on the subject, so it'd be nice to see anything on it really.

[Skeetaru]

Isnt a merited Pup called a dragoon? i may be mistaken...

[Vanostek]

You can't use kiting as an excuse for poor melee output. The fact is that these parses show that the automoton is better at kited mobs. However, if the melee were forced to hold their WS's in order to setup skillchains and magic bursts, then the test is not a fair representation, because the automoton is always going all out.

[Naramaska]

well, unless we can get a chance to straight zerg Kirin and get the parse results from that, this data is more or less unconclusive.

Honestly, not all LS's melee burn Kirin, so the information may be valuable to those that do not.

You don't have to melee-burn Kirin in order to ST him; I do it all the time on NIN with only 2 WHM in attendance usually. If MP starts running low, just gun it and get out of there.

[Khamsin]

i like how you do not melee. =D>

lol, yeah. Probably would have had a higher overall damage output and a smoother/faster fight if he had. It's a shame how many PUPs just stand back rather than properly gearing up and contributing the other half of their damage potential.

[Quixotic]

Chucknorris in the first parse isn't a melee /sadface

[Meian]

i like how you do not melee. =D>

lol, yeah. Probably would have had a higher overall damage output and a smoother/faster fight if he had. It's a shame how many PUPs just stand back rather than properly gearing up and contributing the other half of their damage potential.

C skill you want me to try to punch him? For over 0? I have the gear to melee normal mobs but something like Kirin...
How would the fight be smoother also?

As said before I did /whm for Role Reversal when needed and just the occasional backup support for waking up people, any emergency curing, and -na on the minigod pops.

/cor... I don't even have it unlocked yet, it is true it could provide better overall damage in the end theoretically. Bit burned out from exping, I may unlock it and just level it from Besieged/scrolls sometime in the future.