Saline Coat & Magic Def. Bonus

[divisortheory]

I read on the wiki that Saline Coat is +40 Magic Def. Bonus that decays over time. So I have some questions:

- How long before it'd down to 0?
- What does Magic Def. Bonus cap at?
- Does MDB from Saline Coat count towards the same cap that MDB from traits and gear count towards?

[Popsiclestick]

If you are considering using BLU/xxx to tank JoL. . .then I can say it is neither great or bad. It is certainly not better than RDM/NIN. I didn't do it but an LS mate did and it was so so.

[divisortheory]

If you are considering using BLU/xxx to tank JoL. . .then I can say it is neither great or bad. It is certainly not better than RDM/NIN. I didn't do it but an LS mate did and it was so so.

Was actually thinking of having a rotation of about 5 BLU with capped Diffusion and using it for a tank party against AV with PLD tanks. That being said, I wasn't really looking for whether or not it was good/bad vs. specific mobs, I was just looking for raw data about the abilities.

[Septimus]

If you are considering using BLU/xxx to tank JoL. . .then I can say it is neither great or bad. It is certainly not better than RDM/NIN. I didn't do it but an LS mate did and it was so so.

Was actually thinking of having a rotation of about 5 BLU with capped Diffusion and using it for a tank party against AV with PLD tanks. That being said, I wasn't really looking for whether or not it was good/bad vs. specific mobs, I was just looking for raw data about the abilities.

Interesting. Also throw in a COR for Magus role since you will get the job correlated boost.

[divisortheory]

If you are considering using BLU/xxx to tank JoL. . .then I can say it is neither great or bad. It is certainly not better than RDM/NIN. I didn't do it but an LS mate did and it was so so.

Was actually thinking of having a rotation of about 5 BLU with capped Diffusion and using it for a tank party against AV with PLD tanks. That being said, I wasn't really looking for whether or not it was good/bad vs. specific mobs, I was just looking for raw data about the abilities.

Interesting. Also throw in a COR for Magus role since you will get the job correlated boost.

Not to mention the increased roll area and strength from the patch recently But yea, the idea is to just pile on Magic Def Bonus as high as possible and see what happens. Is there a known cap to it?

[Septimus]

If you are considering using BLU/xxx to tank JoL. . .then I can say it is neither great or bad. It is certainly not better than RDM/NIN. I didn't do it but an LS mate did and it was so so.

Was actually thinking of having a rotation of about 5 BLU with capped Diffusion and using it for a tank party against AV with PLD tanks. That being said, I wasn't really looking for whether or not it was good/bad vs. specific mobs, I was just looking for raw data about the abilities.

Interesting. Also throw in a COR for Magus role since you will get the job correlated boost.

Not to mention the increased roll area and strength from the patch recently But yea, the idea is to just pile on Magic Def Bonus as high as possible and see what happens. Is there a known cap to it?

I think the number 50% was used, but that may have been "Magic Damage Taken" which I think is different.

But it is interesting if AV could only be defeated when using two jobs that didn't exist at the time the mob was added to the game.

[Spekkio]

i'd tried to figure out once if that would be a viable strategy for freezing out ultima's shitadel buster, having a blu pull hate with stun spells like temporal shift, etc, then throw up saline coat before he fired. coupled with shell, it should make it survivable, based on what i remember from my research. the problem of benediction, however, still remains, and i think that since meteor's only unlocked under 2 hr, if you solve the bene problem, you'll solve the meteor problem. still might be fun to try though. ^^

[divisortheory]

i'd tried to figure out once if that would be a viable strategy for freezing out ultima's shitadel buster, having a blu pull hate with stun spells like temporal shift, etc, then throw up saline coat before he fired. coupled with shell, it should make it survivable, based on what i remember from my research. the problem of benediction, however, still remains, and i think that since meteor's only unlocked under 2 hr, if you solve the bene problem, you'll solve the meteor problem. still might be fun to try though. ^^

Someone in my LS mentioned that they think one of the Aerns right outside the spawn point (not one of the 3 right at the spawn point, but on the lake just outside) is a WHM.

While the Benediction problem is obviously very real, it's pointless to keep bringing it up, because at this point the most important thing is to actually go try some of the new theories about AV. The point isn't to kill AV the next time you go fight it, it's to learn something that we didn't already know before. Things like that accelerate the learning process by filling people with tons of new ideas of similar things to try out, and before you know it you arrive at the solution.

[Sady]

I'm farily certain the hard cap is 50% magic damage reduction (analogous to the 50% recast reduction cap) and 1 MDB ~= -1% magic damage although I haven't tested it personally.

IIRC, 3/3 Shell V alone is just above -25% so an Aegis PLD with shell up is essentially capped allready...

The next best thing in terms of pure magic damage dissipation is either a WHM or RDM which have +15 and +12 MDB respectively at lvl 75 from job traits. That means with merrited shell you'd only need about +13-15 MDB in gear to hit the cap which is "easily" done with the combination of Dalmatica, Ataractic solea, and Lamia mantle +1 (for RDM toss in Duelist's gloves and you're set).

[divisortheory]

I'm farily certain the hard cap is 50% magic damage reduction (analogous to the 50% recast reduction cap) and 1 MDB ~= -1% magic damage although I haven't tested it personally.

IIRC, 3/3 Shell V alone is just above -25% so an Aegis PLD with shell up is essentially capped allready...

The next best thing in terms of pure magic damage dissipation is either a WHM or RDM which have +15 and +12 MDB respectively at lvl 75 from job traits. That means with merrited shell you'd only need about +13-15 MDB in gear to hit the cap which is "easily" done with the combination of Dalmatica, Ataractic solea, and Lamia mantle +1 (for RDM toss in Duelist's gloves and you're set).

I thought MDB worked on a different area of the formula though. For example, it's clearly possible to bypass the "hard cap" of -50% by resisting a spell. That's because resisting applies to the formula at a different stage than Shell, for example. So does MDB, therefore I thought it should not necessarily be subject to the same penalties as straight damage mitigation like shell.

[Kaylia]

I thought MDB was simply substracted to the M.ATK bonus? This would make the cap different than m.dmg reduction.

[Suiram]

You're right, divisortheory, "[magic] damage taken -%" works entirely independently from "Magic Defense Bonus". The former is capped, the latter is not. The former has accelerating returns up to the cap, the latter has diminishing returns. The only thing is though, that +40 MDB line was added to the wiki with no reference or justification and I rather suspect it. I guess I could go test it; maybe I will later tonight.

[divisortheory]

I thought MDB was simply substracted to the M.ATK bonus? This would make the cap different than m.dmg reduction.

Divided according to the Wiki /shrug. Not sure, I don't have a mage job so I don' really know how any of this stuff works in detail

[Suiram]

Here is a quick illustration. Let's say you have -25% damage taken, MDB+20, and the enemy's base damage is 1000. You'll take approximately

1000 * 1/1.2 * 192/256 = 625 damage, the 1.2 comes from +20 MDB, and the 192/256 comes from the magic damage taken -25%


If the enemy has, say, MAB+30, you will take approximately

1000 * 1.3/1.2 * 192/256 = 812 damage, same as above, but additionally the 1.3 comes from the MAB of caster

(the numbers are slightly different in reality because of flooring, and also because the MAB/MDB term seems to have some usual rounding or truncation)

[Sady]

Interesting, thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Suiram]

Kuftal Digger Stonaga 3: 555
With Saline Coat: 370
With Saline Coat and 2 merman's rings: 341

555 * 1/1.5 = 370 (so it's MDB+50 if it's MDB)
555 * 171/256 = 370 (so it's -33% if it's magic damage -%)

with merman's rings...

555 * 151/256 = 327 (if Saline Coat is magic damage -33%)
370 * 236/256 = 341 (if Saline Coat is MDB+50)

So Saline Coat is actually initially MDB+50, I'll fix the wiki. Now, good luck finding 5 BLUs who will max Diffusion lol

Edit: Those above casts were the maximum values, obtained by casting saline coat as soon as I saw it start casting stonega 3, so it landed just before the spell landed. I later got (without merman's ring) values of 393 (MDB+41) and 500 (MDB+11). The latter was only a couple seconds before it wore, so it would seem to begin at MDB+50 and then decay to MDB+10 before wearing off.

[Fng]

what is the duration of Saline coat?

[fantasticdan]

what is the duration of Saline coat?

One minute, meaning you would need fifteen blus with max diffusion if you wanted to keep the effect on full time, good luck with that one.

[Spekkio]

what is the duration of Saline coat?

One minute, meaning you would need fifteen blus with max diffusion if you wanted to keep the effect on full time, good luck with that one.

also ignoring that by the end of that 1 minute, the effect would be very weak at best.

[divisortheory]

what is the duration of Saline coat?

One minute, meaning you would need fifteen blus with max diffusion if you wanted to keep the effect on full time, good luck with that one.

Should we also tell WARs to stop using Aggressor and Berserk because they aren't up 100% of the time?

also ignoring that by the end of that 1 minute, the effect would be very weak at best.

I wouldn't call +10 weak.