WotG: A Half-baked, Incomplete Product?

[Kimiko]

Apprently so according to Milkman, read the full review here: http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3165025

My take on it (and yes, this was discussed in LS with Milk and the others), that a 5.5 score is being extremly generous in light of glaring issues with account security and several broken aspects of the expansion. Sure, campaign battles and such are good, but in terms of substantive content, 3 missions that maybe requires all of 1 fight (which is easilly soloable @ 75, this is from windurstan perspective) and more running around than all of CoP combined. Thanks, but WotG probabbly could have used a few more months worth of prep before launch. Dancer is overpowered and just crys out nerf, Scholar is little more than a gimp BLM up to 60+. Hell, even ToAU had more content at launch than this expansion does.

[MaachaQ]

Apprently so according to Milkman, read the full review here: http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3165025

My take on it (and yes, this was discussed in LS with Milk and the others), that a 5.5 score is being extremly generous in light of glaring issues with account security and several broken aspects of the expansion.

This is gonna get locked... but you do know that the security issue has NOTHING to do with the expansion, right?

[BRP]

Milkman is fucking retarded, hating on WotG or praising it.

/thread. :elmer:

[Khalil]

The security thing has nothing to do with the expansion.

A lot of people knew that this expansion was empty, to say the least. Meh, hope SE adds a lot more content on January and in the following updates/patches.

[Kimiko]

Ok, so even if you take the recent security problems out of the equation. You're still left with a product that is not only lacking in initial content, but has also required multiple emergency maintenences to get to even a reasonable point of playability. USB glitches, SE Windower, come on, these should have been tested, and ready to go @ launch without exception. No ifs, ands or butts about it. This is simply another example of SE's lackadasical efforts to put forth a polished MMORPG experience.

[Wizerd]

Ok, so even if you take the recent security problems out of the equation. You're still left with a product that is not only lacking in initial content, but has also required multiple emergency maintenences to get to even a reasonable point of playability. USB glitches, SE Windower, come on, these should have been tested, and ready to go @ launch without exception. No ifs, ands or butts about it. This is simply another example of SE's lackadasical efforts to put forth a polished MMORPG experience.

I dunno, I find the expansion is pretty good now after all those emergency maintenances and updates. The only thing I'd change about it that I can think of off hand is to give Sigil the exp bonus that Sanction gives, or one like it, not the Signet one. On the same note, they should have made a few more good exp camps around the areas, although there are a lot now.

[BRP]

Ok, so even if you take the recent security problems out of the equation. You're still left with a product that is not only lacking in initial content, but has also required multiple emergency maintenences to get to even a reasonable point of playability. USB glitches, SE Windower, come on, these should have been tested, and ready to go @ launch without exception. No ifs, ands or butts about it. This is simply another example of SE's lackadasical efforts to put forth a polished MMORPG experience.

It had reasonable point of playability from the beginning. What it lacked was a perfect point of playability. Unfortunately, projects on tight schedules have technical difficulties with need to be solved through maintenance. Whether WotG is below the par in content compared to other expansions is still hotly debated in six or seven other threads.

That said, Milkman is retarded and EGM/1up and FFXI would benefit greatly if someone with a brain took his place.

[Suiram]

I get the feeling that WotG wasn't 'supposed' to be released until March or something. If you think about it, with the other expansions they always finished all the 'major' additions before releasing the next one, then left the previous ones alone when they did, making only minor adjustments in subsequent patches. Here they claim that ToAU (as an expansion in whole, not the mission story which they claim to be finished) is not complete, and they'll be adding in the rest of it over the next few version updates in 2008. They probably realized that since the launch for WotG is only going to have the bare basics: Campaign, 2 new jobs in their AF-less, Shattering Stars-less forms, and a 3day world spawn HNM that drops literally nothing, they may as well release it now.

Even if true, I don't see this as a bad thing though, I mean, it's not like they took anything away from you. Whatever you would be doing now with original/zilart/cop/toau content if they hadn't released it, you can still do now, with some Campaigning in your free time if you're into it. You're out $30, but you weren't going to pay that in half a year anyway if they'd waited? Shit, I bet they could have sold 10 extra inventory for $30 alone if they wanted to lol

Also, as people already said, the account vulnerabilities and the expansion are likely entirely unrelated to one another.

[Not Kuno]

I disagree with his review. This is the same idiot that didn't understand one of the DNC abilities could start a skillchain and just started ranting about it.

[Tulun]

I agree it's sort of disappointing that more content wasn't initially released, but Aht Urghan wasn't much better.

At the very least, they are improving the game by making soloing exp a much more viable option. In that sense, the expansion has already improved the game. Campaign + sub dnc make soloing much more possible for many jobs.

[Jeryhn]

I didn't bother to click the link (it's Milkman for fuck's sakes), I just wanted to address the OP:

Dancer is overpowered? Are you fucking retarded?

[BRP]

I've yet to find any solid argument against the WotG lacking content.

WotG has more mission and quest(not including Ops) content than ToAU had at launch.

Campaign is more developed than Besieged was/is. To the point of being 2 or 3 times more complex/full of content. It launched much better than Besieged(which was unplayable) and while both were fixed early on, Campaign was only slightly improved, Besieged had to be reconfigured. Campaign isn't dependent on size(compared to strategy). Besieged is entirely based on size and little use of strategy. A small group of players can have a major influence on Campaign. Besieged in entirely dependent on how many people on your server is interested.

WotG has 27 instances(Ops/Assaults), ToAU had 15. Just because the former is lower level doesn't make it any less content. (You can move on the complain about the content, but you must admit it has enough).

Ops is dozens and dozens of quests on it's own, no ToAU counterpart.

WotG has no NMs and ToAU had Orobons that only dropped Orobon lure(for PUP attachment ingredient). ToAU had the HNM Cerberus.

WotG has 18 accessible zones and 3 assault zones, none of which are BC zones. ToAU had 13 accessible zones and 5 assault zones, 3 of which were BC zones. Both expansions made strong use of reused textures.

WotG obviously has more monsters than ToAU. ToAU level range is slightly higher, making more merit camps. (Again, still doesn't mean "more content")

That's all I can think of right now.

Now, ToAU had Al Zahbi. It was a Jeuno replacement. People need stop throwing around the "content" word. I think what most people want is another Jeuno so they can afk in front of another Auction House. On the otherhand, people have been asking for something quick and easy(and not involving many or any amount of people) and we got Campaign.

[Judai]

WotG has 2 new jobs, some new missions and quests, Campaign Ops, Campaign battles consistently going on, many new areas to explore and many possible exp camps that haven't really been tested.

What did TAU have at release? Some new Areas, New Exp Camps, 3 New Jobs, Some new Quests, a few missions, 5 Assaults? Were there more then 5 Assaults, maybe 15, I forget? Horrilbly implemented Besieged.

What did CoP have at release? Uh.. Promies that were absurdely hard and needed an ally to get to the top?..........which were nerfed to hell eventually. (I beat them way back then but I don't really recall much else after them, partially because the people I beat the promies with quit shortly after and I had nobody else to do missions with. CoP was too far back by now for me to really remember what else came, maybe some better gear but I forget.) New areas nobody could explore because.. most people couldn't beat the promies.

RoZ was when I started so yea, idk. Bunch of new stuff prolly but I was kinda nub.

WotG seems pretty much the same as anything else in terms of starting content as far as I remember.

The review is pretty shitty and he doesn't even seem to understand some of the basics about expansions. TAU wasn't fully released at the start, neither was CoP. Sea Gods weren't even in by the time the first people got Sea and iirc most of them were very buggy.

He is trying to compare fully integrated expansions with full content that was released over a year to something that was just started and is still somewhat being explored. Pathetic job at trying to review something, he should be fired if that's how he does all his reviews.

[Beckwin]

while the relative ease of Aht Urhgan's high-level XP'ing areas meant that skillful play was put on the back burner in favor of high-damage "melee-burn" parties requiring much less timing, coordination, and precision.

Pop-tarts, etc. One of those gosh-dern melee burn pts pushing 20k+ requires much more timing, coordination, and precision than any old SC+MB xp party. But then again, Milk is a SMN? and RDM(who probably isn't too hot nor gets in better merit parties), so he's kind of expected to have that archaic and zammish mentality.

a Dancer job in both main and support roles is so powerful that it's almost broken

Broken? lol, maybe in the very early levels. Mid->late level xp/merits you're missing significant haste, and in endgame events it's hardly broken. Makes a great sub for soloing/farming/etc kind of stuff from what I've seen, and looks great for salvage farming.

underutilized activities (like chocobo racing) still require fixing and balancing to become more attractive to players.

whoop-de-fuck. I'll take SE focusing on Campaign (and really, doing a pretty nice job) over any attention on thumb^ass activities.

[Demosthenes11]

I've yet to find any solid argument against the WotG lacking content.

WotG has more mission and quest(not including Ops) content than ToAU had at launch.

Campaign is more developed than Besieged was/is. To the point of being 2 or 3 times more complex/full of content. It launched much better than Besieged(which was unplayable) and while both were fixed early on, Campaign was only slightly improved, Besieged had to be reconfigured. Campaign isn't dependent on size(compared to strategy). Besieged is entirely based on size and little use of strategy. A small group of players can have a major influence on Campaign. Besieged in entirely dependent on how many people on your server is interested.

WotG has 27 instances(Ops/Assaults), ToAU had 15. Just because the former is lower level doesn't make it any less content. (You can move on the complain about the content, but you must admit it has enough).

Ops is dozens and dozens of quests on it's own, no ToAU counterpart.

WotG has no NMs and ToAU had Orobons that only dropped Orobon lure(for PUP attachment ingredient). ToAU had the HNM Cerberus.

WotG has 18 accessible zones and 3 assault zones, none of which are BC zones. ToAU had 13 accessible zones and 5 assault zones, 3 of which were BC zones. Both expansions made strong use of reused textures.

WotG obviously has more monsters than ToAU. ToAU level range is slightly higher, making more merit camps. (Again, still doesn't mean "more content")

That's all I can think of right now.

Now, ToAU had Al Zahbi. It was a Jeuno replacement. People need stop throwing around the "content" word. I think what most people want is another Jeuno so they can afk in front of another Auction House. On the otherhand, people have been asking for something quick and easy(and not involving many or any amount of people) and we got Campaign.

Are you seriously trying to compare the campaign ops to assault? Assault is a hell of a lot harder and more fun than, talking to a npc, then talking to another, warping back to real world, buying an ash log, running back to town, then running back to maw, then talking to another npc. How can you even compare those 2? Ops are complete garbage, not to mention the retardation of the way campaign ops are unlocked.
All of the mobs in the expansion are also completely stupid - that is basically a fact. Not being able to run around in fucking east ronfaure as a 75 without getting aggro is not cool.

But you're right, maybe Wings has more "content" . . . too bad its really fucking shitty. I haven't been to the past in a week and I really doubt I will until the next maintenance. There is no expansion, only a distraction.

[Shabazz]

"Incomplete Product" - If you had said this when the whole expansion content was fully released the you would have a point, considering its early days there is no reason for this thread nor the assumption that it is incomplete to exist right now. All because it doesn't match the amount of content released with other expansions it doesn't mean it has been made "Incomplete". That's just as bad as me saying with a game demo "This is considerably more annoying and less given.. this is so incomplete /outrage". In terms of how calling a "demo" compares, we basically are at the early stages of the expansion so everything will be adjusted accordingly or some aspects not changed at all.

In terms of saying it could of used a lot longer to test, SE don't like losing money nor do they like wasting time, so by maximizing their return on this MMORPG, the expansions have the time/date set, release, give or take 1-3 days, but a few months would be considerable time/lag/cost, and unfortunately they don't want to take the cost and prefer "us" to endure the fixes/updates(maintenances) to remove and clean up, extend the expansion content, which is a lot more cost effective and by stating the pure obvious content is released slowly to keep the player base at a steady level.
From my understanding the development team don't get paid very well or the testers are not coming across to them as accurately as they should be, which is why the bad windowed mode.

I think its safe to say that they are finding it rather difficult to keep accommodating and matching previous content without trying to reproduce the same thing over and over just with a different cover. I think the way WoTG is aiming at the more option of solo' and small party's of 3-4, which has already been stated, so by that review trying to compare to ToAU is like comparing chocolate n cheese, both different.

I could also say I'm already preferring what WoTG offers in terms of joining campaign anytime I want vs. The beastmen are advancing /yawn 2hrs, wait wait, oh was that it?, having the solo ops and 3 person ops. Yeh not much content in terms of missions but I can bet the mission list will be big. About the point of running around, I seem to remembering running all through ToAU areas to xp camps etc before Chocobo's and the fact ToAU so full of Cut scenes - I think that lacked more to say the least even the end rewards predictably failed. - By comparing it to ToAU seems stupid in my opinion but it seems WoTG has be be comparable to ToAU? to which the content of that 1UP review doesn't do but state the obvious for itself as its still early.

To add something that I have noticed, it seems that people have been miss-guided about ToAu, given it also lacks a lot, the HNM's are a joke, missions are a "joke", the only good thing I can say that was accomplished was the ability for the merit areas, the improved armor released "may I add.. a lot later on". I think I could say both ToAu and WoTg "Currently" are a pile of curd, lack testing and all of the above that could be said, they dont compare to COP and ROTZ, simple as. WoTG is in early stages so I'd stick with it and wait to see, the end result in 6+ months time, we could discuss this thread further, but its silly to make assumptions based on whats currently out. I can slaughter ToAU all day if i needed to, but while I dislike it, it has some really good points to it, and currently so does WoTG. It gives others the opportunity to decide and choose accordingly. Reviewers have a fail at life biased opinion and shouldn't even have the job as they cannot define what they think between what they should be writing, which is why I generally don't buy or read them and demo the game for myself. That aside, people who are currently hating WotG "may" find something in the future releases of content they make like, or not, this battle is neither lost nor won, because I could as many of you also, could keep replying and stating "ZOMG how teh ToAU pwnz all teh WoTg content liek so badly"


This thread has been made 6-9months prematurely to say the least.

Need I say more

[Lordshin]

WotG(what we have now) >>>>>>>>> ToAU(the whole thing)
and thats why WotG is getting bad reviews

No really tho... imo its is far greater than ToAU ever was an will be... about the emergency maintenence shit happens... even things you test can go horribly wrong

how many missions did ToAU have at launch? i believe it was 3 also and ALL cutscenes..
SE already stated WotG will have few missions.. why are people complaining? Notice: 3 missions, one mission is divided into 3 quests... now after you finish those 3 quests you get the next mission then you can go and do the other nations' quests which, in case you havent noticed, are equivalent to Missions in CoP they have a tone of story content that is NOT a side story... so in actuality there are 3+3+4, 10 missions... and look one is actually a fight i believe ToAU's first fight was mission 13? First BC fight was 15? (correct me if im wrong)

WotG will have missions that branch into quests, SE already said this... stop complaining about mission numbers >.>

and also accord ing to other ppl WotG has more than what CoP had to offer at launch... and CoP is probably the Greates expansion for FFXI

:ashira: Note: excuse my grammar and spelling im in a hurry xD

[Tajin]

I didn't bother to click the link (it's Milkman for fuck's sakes), I just wanted to address the OP:
Dancer is overpowered? Are you fucking retarded?

Also, so what if so and so job is overpowered, jump on the fucking job bandwagon and stop fucking crying. Seriously...


P.S. /bandwagon: LOL saying security has anything to do with expansion.

[fantasticdan]

I think you have to take the fact that most of the zones aren't new into account, when trying to debate the amount of "content" WotG brings to the table. Not to mention the actual size of the zones, as I've said in earlier threads, many of the ToAU zones themselves (mire, reef, woodlands, etc) are HUGE compared to any of the recycled or new zones available in WotG.

Campaign OPs, as of now, totally suck ass, and don't really compare to assault.

[Delekii]

On paper, wings has more content. In reality, the content is like ffxi-lite.

I think the problem I have with WoTG as a whole is that currently it is almost entirely pointless. If you don't defend, the beastmen take over areas - but why does that matter? All it means is that instead of defending in campaign, we are attacking, and paying slightly more for warps. Oh, and access to more/different campaign ops.

What is the point of Campaign ops? Ranking up? What is the point of ranking up? Again from day one, assault had incredible rewards to work toward. I don't know, for me story is important, but there also has to be a point to going through the motions. Campaign ops and Assaults aren't like missions, they don't have an in depth story, nor do they necessarily make sense (assault in particular, it is silly that a lot of assaults are repeatable at all in terms of story). But at least assaults were moderately challenging at times, and some were quite original. Campaign Ops remind me of WoW quests - go here, kill/harvest/talk to this person, return. Having not logged on for a few days, I did 7 different campaign ops in a row yesterday, and it took me about an hour, if that. That is not content, that is filler.

WoTG has potential, I don't think anyone would deny that. But for me, releasing it in such a mediocre state is a downer, not a plus. I'd prefer not to have my original perceptions marred by the fact that I have fought hundreds of campaigns already and they are getting to be a drag, fighting the same groups of monsters over and over with no real consequence, nor by the fact that campaign ops, while they sounded great as described pre-release are little more than 2 minute quirks, and so fourth.

I don't have a problem with the fact that there have been multiple maintenances, in fact I love the fact that they are fixing it straight away rather than waiting to fix it at the next big maintenance when I'm sure they would have had to change it again anyway. That kind of thing is to be expected in an MMO and complaining about it is silly. But the utter lack of content just detracts from the expansion as a whole. Stop trying to say "well when it was released ToAU only had a few assaults and a couple of areas with a couple of mobs, WoTG has much more release content", because it doesn't. 9/10ths of the areas are at best slightly modified, but become boringly similar very quickly, and those that aren't are at least similar in theme. ToAU areas were totally original and the feeling of exploration was much larger. The same can be said of the mobs - again the majority of mobs are identical to old shit, with a slight twist here and there, and the mobs that are actually new barely feature so far in the actual content (as different from standing around in big areas that are currently a pain in the arse to explore due to SE's inexplicable desire to make people spend 8 hours walking from town to town on release when we have had chocobos in the game for 5 years). And as others have said, comparing assault and it's rewards to campaign and it's rewards is an unequal comparison, to put it nicely.