Tomahawk

[Kirschy]

I ran some Tomahawk tests to see if I could get a rough idea of what's going on~

I used a ton of STR + Meat, and used a 40 DMG Sword.
fSTR Cap = 12
DMG = 40
Base DMG = 52

First I went to get a control test using Sneak Attack on normal mobs:

Normal Crits:
155, 156, 150, 145, 159, 151, 161
Avg - 153.86
Avg pdif - 2.95

Then I went to find an Elemental~
35, 40, 38, 38, 40
Avg - 38.2
1 - (38.2/153.86) = ~75% melee damage taken

Then I used Tomahawk before each Sneak Attack~
69, 69, 66, 67, 63
Avg - 66.2
1 - (66.2/153.86) = ~ -57% melee damage taken

Then I went to find some Skeletons~
133, 132, 135, 130, 140, 136, 137, 142, 132, 141
Avg - 135.8
1 - (135.8/153.86) = ~ -12% melee damage taken

Then I used Tomahawk before each Sneak Attack on the Skeleton~
146, 141, 143, 132, 139
Avg - 140.2
1 - (140.2/153.68) = ~ 9% melee damage taken


From this data it follows that Tomahawk's Defense down partially removes a mob's resistance in proportion to it's base resistance. Mobs with higher base resistance will show a greater change /w Tomahawk as opposed to a Skeleton or Greater Mob which will show a much smaller change. The data size is small, so I think getting an exact % would be hard... but it appears to be around 1/3rd of base resistance is removed.

(Note: Before the 3.0 pdif hard cap was changed, I had data showing the base slashing resistance from skeletons was 12.5%. [896/1024] I'm fairly certian this was proven by other people.)

EDIT: Fixed a mistake in math

[Jaybar]

So does the % decrease also get affected when Banish is on Undead mobs? It's my understanding different tiers of Banish remove different percentages of -% physical dmg much like Tomahawk, yes? Would Tomahawk's -% phys dmg reduction be affected pre or post banish?

I neither have WHM or WAR to test myself heh ;x Wondering if others have this information or could test?

[BerenTebogo]

How does this information relate vs. angon? Do they stack? Or is it the same effect?

And also, so I have the understanding right, let's say we take Nidhogg as an example, under Tomahawk, 1/3 of his base resistance to damage will be removed?

[Kirschy]

Tomahawk doesn't have a message when it wears off, and there's no message about the mob recieving a special defense down. It also has no apparant effect on mobs without damage resistance. I guess it'd be interesting to use this Ballista and see if there's an icon for it, my belief is that there would be none. Angon is different in that it's a direct Defense Down-%. Tomahawk is unique in that is only removes a portion of a mob's resistance, not it's defense. Angon also has messages for when it's used, and wears off.

I could test Banish a bit later... I think Banish is just a straight Defense Down, and should show no difference in my tests since I'm capped attack.

Nidhogg doesn't have damage resistance unless it's wings are up... it would be virtualli impossible to test if it affects something like that :/ Same goes for Aspi inside his shell (although that would be a ton easier to test... anyone ever try Tomahawk while Aspi is inside shell?)

[Clave]

Banish actually removes resistance on undead. Whether it also lowers defense or not I'm not sure(I'd wager no tbh). But resistance is easy to tell since I've never noticed much of a difference with blunt stuff on bones, yet dagger/polearms nearly double in the damage they do. On ghosts however, after a banish club does way more as well since they have huge blunt resistance.

Edit: Also, different tiers of Banish only seem to affect the duration of the "special defense down" effect, and not its potency.

[Suiram]

I tested tomahawk a while back on a few mobs, and it reduced the magic reduction by 1/4. For instance a weapon by crag of Dem has inherent magic damage reduction of -32/256, tomahawk reduced it to -24/256. The same weapon having cast shell 1 had a total of -56/256 magic damage taken, and after tomahawk it became -42/256.

Your tests seem to illustrate that it works the same for physical damage types. -75% damage taken becomes -56%, while -12.5% becomes -9%.

[Therin]

I tested tomahawk a while back on a few mobs, and it reduced the magic reduction by 1/4. For instance a weapon by crag of Dem has inherent magic damage reduction of -32/256, tomahawk reduced it to -24/256. The same weapon having cast shell 1 had a total of -56/256 magic damage taken, and after tomahawk it became -42/256.

Your tests seem to illustrate that it works the same for physical damage types. -75% damage taken becomes -56%, while -12.5% becomes -9%.

That's neat, I have to wonder if a WAR Tomahawking Tiamat would affect nuke damage. By that definition it should, right?

[Suiram]

If Tiamat's damage reduction is TMDA and not MDB it should. There was some dispute for a while what form it took, that I'm not sure how it was resolved. Do unresisted Quick Draws do full damage on wyrms? If so then it's TMDA in which case it should help. For instance if it's -50% then it'd become -37.5% (roughly a 25% increase in damage for the BLM). Or it could be a little bit of both reductions as with magic pots (-50% from monster class, MDB from Job Trait).

[Kirschy]

Tested out Banish III on Skel~
154, 152, 154, 156, 157
avg - 154.6

Appears to have completely removed the slashing resistance. So Banish does inflict a similar defense down as Tomahawk~

Thats interesting Tomahawk works for Magical Damage. I never thought to check that~

[Khajit]

It's a decent way to zerg temperance with blm . Getting the damned jailer to pop is another problem entirely.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Try out uragnites

[SeraphusRagnarok]

Someoen mentioned a while ago that it works on Hydra's Bulwark moves,can anyone confirm?

[#686578]

Try out uragnites

This would be very interesting to me.

[Kylen]

Do unresisted Quick Draws do full damage on wyrms?

Yes, it does.

[Hicks]

Do unresisted Quick Draws do full damage on wyrms?

Yes, it does.

I can attest to this as well.

Next time I do nyzul I'll try to see if tomahawk does anything on hydra.

[Obev]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...85_1574242.gif

What the hell, is that my old sig? Nice job on the blingage, I approve wholeheartedly.

Anyways, Banish seems to work irrespective of main job Divine skill. I've Banished crap in Nyzul as RDM BRD and WHM, and it's always led to an immediate increase in damage from those afflicted by the resistance. It certainly makes Ridill Warriors and Thieves against Draugars a lot less painful. If I get the chance I'll test the effect of Cleric's Mitts on Banish's undead resistance removal; I seem to recall some talk about them increasing the effect, but I could be dead wrong. Just need a few hours free to go WHM/THF and sneak attack some Ghosts.

If it does decrease the resistance even further then maybe it'd be worth it for me to finish leveling Scholar and go WHM/SCH to Nyzul instead of just RDM~ or BRD~/WHM, but then again you can go an entire 5-floor climb without seeing one Undead, and chainspell Thunder 3 with MAB drink can kill Fafnir from 30%, so it's probably better to keep going RDM. Nonetheless, I'll probably test it later.

[Clave]

If it does decrease the resistance even further then maybe it'd be worth it for me to finish leveling Scholar and go WHM/SCH to Nyzul instead of just RDM~ or BRD~/WHM, but then again you can go an entire 5-floor climb without seeing one Undead, and chainspell Thunder 3 with MAB drink can kill Fafnir from 30%, so it's probably better to keep going RDM. Nonetheless, I'll probably test it later.

From my experience it only increases length, but I may be wrong. I just never noticed any difference.

[Elipse]

Then I went to find an Elemental~
35, 40, 38, 38, 40
Avg - 31.8
1 - (31.8/153.86) = ~ -79.4% melee damage taken

How is your average 31 when your hits were all 35+?

[Slott]

Both tomahawk and banish(at least against undead) work in south east apollyon, where mobs have complete resistance to a particular weapon type. I'm not sure if that would be a decent area for you to test or not (your hits would go from 0 to whatever - you don't get a huge damage bonus though)

[Xanthe]

Yes, Angon and Tomahawk will stack. Angon is a strait 20% defense down on any mob and as it has been discussed above Tomahawk is a partial reduction of special damage resistance (blunt, slashing, piercing, and magical). Angon will always have an effect on a mob unless there is a stronger % defense down effect already on the mob (the exception is Frightful Roar, which is only 10% defense down but cannot be overwritten by Angon). Tomahawk will only have an effect if the target has some form of damage reduction already. I'm not sure what order the two statuses are calculated in, but I imagine defense is calculated first followed by any blanket reductions. On a side note I think it would be interesting to test Tomahawk in Ballista to see if it has any effect on -% damage taken gear (physical/magical/both).