Really? (Just beat the game)

[archibaldcrane]

That...

...was the stupidest, most illogical sequence of events ever.

Kill Barthandelus, awesome, good joerb. Bad guy is dead. Sweet, high-five team.

A Wild Orphan appears!

Oh check it out, it's Orphan, the thing that if we kill it then Cocoon is destroyed! There it is! Ok, let's not kill it.

Wait.

What?

Why am I fighting Orphan?

This is the thing I'm not supposed to kill. The whole game they've been telling me not to kill Orphan or Cocoon will be destroyed and millions will die.

Well, there doesn't seem to be a "do not fight" option, ok lets do this.

Great, now Cocoon is dead.

Holy shit that guy has a lot of arms, where the fuck did he come from? Did he just make crystal out of lava and transform cocoon into some sort of gelatinous substance? I guess that's one way to go.

Oh, people are alive now and walking around on Gran Pulse, or something - how did they survive again? Where's that Maker guy anyway? Wasn't he supposed to appear, or is that only if we killed everyone?

By what device did everyone on Cocoon not die again? How did that work? Oh, it's just completely fucking ARBITRARY AND STUPID AND TERRIBLE? JUST LIKE THE REASON WE FOUGHT ORPHAN ANYWAY KNOWING THAT IT WOULD CAUSE COCOON'S DESTRUCTION BUT IT DIDN'T FOR SOME STUPID FUCKING REASON?

Holy shit wow that ending was unbelievably awful and terrible in every single way. Hands down the worst story I've ever played in 23 years of gaming. Ever. Wow.

Discuss

[Xno Kappa]

Really?

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90199

[archibaldcrane]

Obviously deserving of it's own thread.

[Raen Ryong]

Well you only started understanding it at chapter 12 so <_< you've probably missed things!

You fight Orphan partially out of self defence and partially because even if you defy your Focus and become Ci'eth, something will eventually destroy Orphan and cause apocalypse. You might as well make sure those people are you so you can attempt to stop it (as opposed to future l'Cie who may well just be completely obedient pawns for all you know).

In many cutscenes at the end of chapter 11 and throughout chapter 12, you begin to realise that you will inevitably be playing into Dysley's hands by going to Eden/Orphan's Cradle. Therefore, there is a logical possibility that you will in fact destroy Orphan. The team is ready for this.

Holy shit that guy has a lot of arms, where the fuck did he come from? Did he just make crystal out of lava and transform cocoon into some sort of gelatinous substance? I guess that's one way to go.

He's Ragnarok... Vanille and Fang combine to release him. You may have heard him mentioned at some point. Instead of destroying Cocoon though, "she" (I suppose it's a she) tries to protect it (note your Focus was to become Ragnarok and destroy Cocoon - not that Ragnarok itself would explicitly destroy Cocoon).

Without Orphan, Cocoon loses its artificial gravity and begins to plunge towards Gran Pulse. Ragnarok tries to stop this and crystallises it since this seems to be a common element to fal'Cie/l'Cie and what have you.

Where's that Maker guy anyway? Wasn't he supposed to appear, or is that only if we killed everyone?

The Maker intervenes and stops Fang becoming Ragnarok inside Orphan's chamber (and causes the burned out brands). It's just a fal'Cie idea of how to summon the Maker, not the only way the Maker can exist.

By what device did everyone on Cocoon not die again? How did that work? Oh, it's just completely fucking ARBITRARY AND STUPID AND TERRIBLE? JUST LIKE THE REASON WE FOUGHT ORPHAN ANYWAY KNOWING THAT IT WOULD CAUSE COCOON'S DESTRUCTION BUT IT DIDN'T FOR SOME STUPID FUCKING REASON?

No, not everyone died. A large amount of people did but the "planet" ended up being supported by Ragnarok's crystal pillar and so doesn't need the artificial gravity thingy. It's still largely in ruins and scarred though.

[Eaglestrike]

ITT: I don't pay attention and am therefore angry I don't understand things!

[archibaldcrane]

ITT: I don't pay attention and am therefore angry I don't understand things!

Did you know whether or not everyone on Cocoon would die if we killed Orphan, and if they didn't die, how they would be saved?

Pretty sure that (SUPER FUCKING IMPORTANT) tidbit was never mentioned.

[braaaanch]

Before this spirals into an 'lrn 2 lizen' thread I'm going to get my two cents in.

Yeah, this ending was terrible.

Actually, once you leave Gran Pulse the game just nose dives.

[Eaglestrike]

Did you know whether or not everyone on Cocoon would die if we killed Orphan, and if they didn't die, how they would be saved?

Pretty sure that (SUPER FUCKING IMPORTANT) tidbit was never mentioned.

No, we didn't (not that I recall) however, we did know that no matter what, Orphan was going to be killed. And people were going to be fucked with as long as these Fal'cie were alive. So we took option C, to just hope shit works out, because A and B were 100% chance to be as bad as can be.

[archibaldcrane]

No, we didn't (not that I recall) however, we did know that no matter what, Orphan was going to be killed. And people were going to be fucked with as long as these Fal'cie were alive. So we took option C, to just hope shit works out, because A and B were 100% chance to be as bad as can be.

Who was going to kill them if we didn't?

The next group of L'Cies? Leaving it up to them would sure buy a lot of time to evacuate everyone to Gran Pulse before then, no?

Illogical, wishful-thinking, "we're the heroes, heroes never fail" bullshit decision making. Who honestly cares if Orphan dies if there's no more people left on Cocoon? The evacuation had already begun...

Plenty of people seem to think that millions did die when Cocoon died. That's blood on our hands, yay heroes! We did it!

[Raz]

Oh, people are alive now and walking around on Gran Pulse, or something - how did they survive again?
Discuss

I could be wrong but didn't Rosch tell his troops to evacuate people?

[Akiyama]

Before people go on about stupid endings or stupid bosses.. Uh... Hello Necron from FFIX? VII may have been terribly overrated, and VIII may have been quite terrible, but at least their final bosses were important throughout the whole game.

Orphan was important.. but I thought they chose a bad design. He looked quite fucked up.

And iirc, I believe Fang/Vanille as Ragnarok moved the living people to Gran Pulse temporarily or something. Otherwise, how would Sazh's kid and Serah get down there?

[Raen Ryong]

Illogical, wishful-thinking, "we're the heroes, heroes never fail" bullshit decision making. Who honestly cares if Orphan dies if there's no more people left on Cocoon? The evacuation had already begun...

Plenty of people seem to think that millions did die when Cocoon died. That's blood on our hands, yay heroes! We did it!

Do you think Barthandalus would have allowed Rosch to continue with his evacuation plans if you did not seek him out and destroy him? It is demonstrated just how easily human soldiers can be transformed into Ci'eth. He's not about to give up his master plan which he spent so long preparing for.

And yes, many people did die thanks to what the l'Cie did. They also saved a lot of people. It's not so black and white (a lot of the game is about necessary sacrifice - Barthandalus' plan, Rosch's ideals, even things like Dajh).

Did you want a happy cuddly ending? Their focus was fulfilled. Throughout the game you expect them to beat it - that they can beat destiny. They don't... but they do take that inevitable end and make the best of it they can.

[archibaldcrane]

Do you think Barthandalus would have allowed Rosch to continue with his evacuation plans if you did not seek him out and destroy him?

We did destroy him.

Why continue with destroying Orphan after that? Bart's gone, evacuate everyone, yay!

And iirc, I believe Fang/Vanille as Ragnarok moved the living people to Gran Pulse temporarily or something. Otherwise, how would Sazh's kid and Serah get down there?

The fact that we have to even wonder about something like this shows how terrible and arbitrary the storytelling is.

[Raen Ryong]

We did destroy him.

Why continue with destroying Orphan after that? Bart's gone, evacuate everyone, yay!

The fact that we have to even wonder about something like this shows how terrible and arbitrary the storytelling is.

Orphan is alive and is born to die. Who's to say the remaining fal'Cie aren't just going to go crazy and turn everyone nearby into a l'Cie to destroy Orphan? That's a huge amount of people destined to either become crystal or monstrous.

I honestly can't remember how you end up on Gran Pulse again since I've only seen the cutscene once and it's a rather inconsequential detail. I'll have to watch it again sometime!

You're not qualified to criticise the storyline when you couldn't understand it even near the end <_<

[LinktheDeme]

Orphan is alive and is born to die. Who's to say the remaining fal'Cie aren't just going to go crazy and turn everyone nearby into a l'Cie to destroy Orphan? That's a huge amount of people destined to either become crystal or monstrous.

I honestly can't remember how you end up on Gran Pulse again since I've only seen the cutscene once and it's a rather inconsequential detail. I'll have to watch it again sometime!

You're not qualified to criticise the storyline when you couldn't understand it even near the end <_<

You end up on Gran Pulse because in the Ark you take a space ship and fly it towards Gran Pulse. On the way to Gran Pulse a Monster/Fal'cie/w/e attacks you and damages the ship so you crash there.

I was wondering how this part was concluded though,

"The Maker intervenes and stops Fang becoming Ragnarok inside Orphan's chamber (and causes the burned out brands). It's just a fal'Cie idea of how to summon the Maker, not the only way the Maker can exist."

How do we know the Maker intervenes, as opposed to them just having enough willpower to change their focus?

[Kyo]

You're not qualified to criticise the storyline when you couldn't understand it even near the end <_<

LIKE MOTHERFUCKING NAGASAKI UP IN THIS BITCH.

[Boyiee]

I didn't love the ending but I didn't hate it. The only thing I dislikes was how utterly easy and how much of a joke bart, and primarily orphan were to beat. I had a plan, had all these paradigms set up, went in ready and prepared... walked out in like 3-4minutes total combined between both bosses. Orphan was just over 1minute.

I remember dying to fucking random packs of mobs once in a while, I remember dying to the first version of bart and fighting him for like 10 minutes... I remember playing legend of dragoon and the divine dragon and last bosses being a bitch when I was a kid. Fucking behemoths were harder at some points.

[Mytiwar]

Ending wasn`t great, granted, but it was far from as bad as you make it out to be imo.

10 is still the greatest story!

[Raen Ryong]

You end up on Gran Pulse because in the Ark you take a space ship and fly it towards Gran Pulse. On the way to Gran Pulse a Monster/Fal'cie/w/e attacks you and damages the ship so you crash there.

I remember that, I mean at the end

I was wondering how this part was concluded though,

"The Maker intervenes and stops Fang becoming Ragnarok inside Orphan's chamber (and causes the burned out brands). It's just a fal'Cie idea of how to summon the Maker, not the only way the Maker can exist."

How do we know the Maker intervenes, as opposed to them just having enough willpower to change their focus?

There are elements of both, but I am fairly sure it is explicitly stated in the text that the Maker intervened with Fang's Ragnarok, as s/he did 500 years previously (Orphan says something like "why have you failed again?" which prompts it, can't remember precisely).

[Boyiee]

10 is still the greatest story!

Everyone get out while you still can. Time to avoid this forum for a weak so I don't have to read any of the inevitable shitstorm thats about to ensue.