LBC Strategy recap

[Rho]

This post goes out mainly to aurik, wafik, and those who have brought LBC down. Our shell is making its first serious attempt on LBC on Wednesday since we can complete a few pieces with a win.

This is roughly the PT makeup I'll have:
PT1: MNK/NIN, MNK/NIN, PLD/WAR, RDM/WHM, WHM, BRD
PT2: RDM/DRK, WHM, BLM, BLM, THF, ???(might be a rng)

Both MNKs have capped Penance.

We'll try to kill 9/10 or 10/10 gears on the 4th floor but let's assume that doesn't happen.

Using the straight tanking strategy, here's our plan:

1) MNKs alternate on Penance and fight LBC on it's side. (If we have a 3rd MNK with Penance they'll be in the Penance order also but not necessarily fighting. From what I've been told, 2 melee is just right.)
2) PLD from a distance uses voke/flas to build up hate for a potential HM.
3) RDM and WHM in the MNK pt each have an assigned MNK to Paralyna/Erase from Discharge/Inertia Stream
4) RDM/DRK will be the main enfeebler, and in the Homing Missle Stun order. Homing Missle in general can be stunned 2-3 times from what I've read.
5) Keep DoTs on it til zerg time, at which point we'll take it off with a 30sec Dia3 (to prevent death from DoT possibility)
6) At 25%, MNKs 2hr, BLMs start nuking hard (assuming a Homing Missle hasn't recently reset hate at that point). Revitalizers get used if obtained. THF uses Feint for the 2hr. Soul Voice used, double Minuet. Will Chainstunning be effective at all at this point?

MNKs reposition if/when LBC turns. If Homing Missle goes off (assuming this is the unweakened Homing Missle) PLD tanks it until MNKs can reestablish hate. I've heard Defense tanking doesn't work too bad for a PLD. Let me know though if most of you swear by PLD/NIN for the hate sink.

That's basically what I know and what we're doing.

If I'm missing any vital points or if there's any bit of what I've said that could use some changes, please reply.

Many thanks for taking the time to read this and a big thank you to those who have blazed the trail before.

[Hapernack]

Looks like you have it right on paper. I hope you get some pieces finished 'cuz Salvage on our server is severely... how do I put this... "lacking"?

Just out of curiousity which pieces are you finishing up?

Also one more thing, if you start having trouble keeping both melee up at the same time this is how we beat him:

-had 1 MNK on it 24/7
-2 other MNKs ran in for 3 rounds of attacks to build TP every now and then
-The healers had a lot easier of a time (we only had 2) keeping up 1 single MNK so in case they needed to erase and Cure V at the same time to save the MNK, they could do so.
-Once it hit 30% or so we unleashed all 3 MNKs in HF mode and then the BLMs did Manafont - zerg.

Good luck again and hopefully you don't have the crap luck we did when our static was beginning

[Terek]

we've got a morrigans body 2/3, usukane legs 2/3, skadi feet 2/3, and 2x marduk hands 2/3 that could all be potentially completed with an LBC win. lolrats can suck a fat one.

[Sidanoir]

If you get there with a fair amount of time your first run which you should aim for, you can always have your monks turn backs to recover MP as long as its before 25% when it auto TPs..don't rush pre 25% and end up not having mp to heal your tanks

Empashize to your mages what a beast this thing is....it can do 1000 damage pretty much instantly from AOE + Triple Attack or Double Attack with crits

If you have to zombie make sure to use Bio II or Poison II...since they both last pretty long...dont use Bio 3 or whatever which is short duration at low merits...

LBC sheds hate pretty easy so..even after a missile a voke + flash + Cure IV would probably be enough to get hate...
I had no problem with just voke + warcry...

We have never had the burst damage to kill gears yet for a LBC run....our best was 5 kills then 6th and 7th warped :/ damn you restoral...but if you can do that.......then this fight is a lot more trivial.....

Good luck

[Rho]

If you get there with a fair amount of time your first run which you should aim for, you can always have your monks turn backs to recover MP as long as its before 25% when it auto TPs..don't rush pre 25% and end up not having mp to heal your tanks

Empashize to your mages what a beast this thing is....it can do 1000 damage pretty much instantly from AOE + Triple Attack or Double Attack with crits

Thanks for the advice on rest pre-25%. It's something I could have easily overlooked having us do.

[Genosync]

if all else fails

zombie it under 20%

[Deimos]

One thing I didn't see you mention is anything specifically about your "stun order" for Homing Missile. It's important to note that it's very difficult, if not impossible, to stun it if you wait to see the message in the log that it's using Homing Missile. It goes off quite quickly, so we always have our stunners cast Stun immediately when it turns. That way if it does do Homing Missile right away, it will get stunned, and if it doesn't, your tanks should both be able to move to its side while it's stunned, so it won't be able to use it any more until it turns again. We typically have two BLMs rotating Stun, and only nuking/enfeebling if it's not currently their turn. Adding a RDM/DRK to that should give you someone with Stun ready all the time, but I'm not sure how much they'll be able to concentrate on it, depending on how well the tanking is going, and considering they're the only refresh in that party for 4 mages.

One other thing I'd change is to have your MNKs use their 2-hours at the start, not the end. LBC is really easy to tank at the beginning, but at 25% it becomes absolutely ridiculous. I think if you wait until 25% to use the 2-hours, you'll find that they get wasted, since the MNKs will probably either end up quickly dead, or they'll get bound/paralyzed and LBC will move away from them (due to Homing Missile or someone else just pulling hate from curing the massive amount of damage they start taking). The fight generally turns into a mess for us at the end, with almost everyone ending up kiting it at some point. It'll most likely be your BLMs or RNG that end up finishing it off.

[Lhexh]

Hmm, Homing Missile is incredibly easy to stun by the chat log assuming you actually use filters. Did LBC last night and stunned all 4 Homing Missiles I attempted to as BLM/WHM. Using just a single stunner though leaves open room for recast issues on Stun, but a 2 man cycle makes it childs play.

[aurik]

Does LBC not resist stun anymore?

[Lhexh]

This was a nerfed LBC so not sure if its the difference but I havent seen a single resisted stun in my last 2 trips there.

[Mojo]

LBC has never resisted Stun, nor does it build resists to Stun. It just takes a good amount of magic accuracy to land it. With 200 base skill, it will resist a RDM/DRK a lot, even with some decent magic accuracy. A BLM or DRK with some good dark skill and magic accuracy gear should be able to land Stun without too many resists(Although I can't really say for sure, we have 0 of those in my Salvage group).

However, if you get an assassin's drink along the way and have a decent magic accuracy/dark magic set, you can chainspell stun with good success. We've taken to knocking it down to 26%, soul voicing all of the melee(Thunder Threnody too) for a 26% > 0% melee zerg. It's not necessary but it makes it easier, and yeah it does work on a non nerfed LBC.

[aurik]

It resisted stun plenty back in Feb/Mar when we were initially testing it. From BLM mains.

[Mojo]

It has a pretty high resist rate to begin with, but again it's nothing you can't overcome. Without any magic accuracy or dark magic skill, I'll get resisted about 80% of the time. If I pile it, it gets better, but still nothing reliable(for RDM/DRK, at least). It only really becomes dependable when you have an assassin's drink available. Out of the last 3 times we've done a chainspell stun zerg at the end, I've only had one stun resisted. The BRD also forgot to stack threnody that time. Although I can't say for sure, I can imagine a BLM or DRK with lots of skill and accuracy could get to point where stun procs reliably without the use of an assassin's drink or what have you.

[Odog]

One thing I didn't see you mention is anything specifically about your "stun order" for Homing Missile. It's important to note that it's very difficult, if not impossible, to stun it if you wait to see the message in the log that it's using Homing Missile. It goes off quite quickly, so we always have our stunners cast Stun immediately when it turns. That way if it does do Homing Missile right away, it will get stunned, and if it doesn't, your tanks should both be able to move to its side while it's stunned, so it won't be able to use it any more until it turns again. We typically have two BLMs rotating Stun, and only nuking/enfeebling if it's not currently their turn. Adding a RDM/DRK to that should give you someone with Stun ready all the time, but I'm not sure how much they'll be able to concentrate on it, depending on how well the tanking is going, and considering they're the only refresh in that party for 4 mages.

One other thing I'd change is to have your MNKs use their 2-hours at the start, not the end. LBC is really easy to tank at the beginning, but at 25% it becomes absolutely ridiculous. I think if you wait until 25% to use the 2-hours, you'll find that they get wasted, since the MNKs will probably either end up quickly dead, or they'll get bound/paralyzed and LBC will move away from them (due to Homing Missile or someone else just pulling hate from curing the massive amount of damage they start taking). The fight generally turns into a mess for us at the end, with almost everyone ending up kiting it at some point. It'll most likely be your BLMs or RNG that end up finishing it off.

It has a pretty high resist rate to begin with, but again it's nothing you can't overcome. Without any magic accuracy or dark magic skill, I'll get resisted about 80% of the time. If I pile it, it gets better, but still nothing reliable(for RDM/DRK, at least). It only really becomes dependable when you have an assassin's drink available. Out of the last 3 times we've done a chainspell stun zerg at the end, I've only had one stun resisted. The BRD also forgot to stack threnody that time. Although I can't say for sure, I can imagine a BLM or DRK with lots of skill and accuracy could get to point where stun procs reliably without the use of an assassin's drink or what have you.

LBC 100% does build a stun resistance. I am the blm that stuns it in our salvage group. You have about 4-6 stuns that are going to land near 100% and then after that it is VERY hard to land a stun. HM can easily be stunned looking at the chat logs if the stunner is good.

Stunning everytime LBC turns = he will be 90-100% resisting stun by the time he is 50%

Unless LBC was nerfed and now stuns can be landed at will... If that is true LBC would be a joke. I really doubt the stun thing was nerfed as it was a big reason he was so hard.

Assuming that I am right and that stun can only reliably be used 4-6 times, you want to have your best stunner focus on stuning HM. After it uses a TP move have him toss cure III on a tank and go right back to camping HM stun. Have the rdm in the Blm pt keep the blm refreshed and u have a Blm that is curing a couple hundred HP every TP move as well as neutralizing HM.

Hope this helps

[aurik]

So much for never resisting stun? Notwithstanding chainspell zerg, stunning HM was not a reliable option pre-patch and I was asking Lhexh if that's changed.

[Lhexh]

I would never build a strategy around relying on stunning Homing Missile even if stun resistance was nerfed. I haven't had any problems stunning it but probably a large part of that is the fact I only stunned when it went off which meant 4-6 stuns a fight.

There really is no need to even stun it if you are nerfing LBC since he is incredibly easy once nerfed combined with the great drinks you get from the gears nerfing him in the first place.

[Odog]

pre-patch u couldnt even save stun for emergency aurik? i.e. save for the couple HM's that enevitably happen

[Odog]

I would never build a strategy around relying on stunning Homing Missile even if stun resistance was nerfed. I haven't had any problems stunning it but probably a large part of that is the fact I only stunned when it went off which meant 4-6 stuns a fight.

There really is no need to even stun it if you are nerfing LBC since he is incredibly easy once nerfed combined with the great drinks you get from the gears nerfing him in the first place.

Well our strategy is built around not letting him get a chance to use HM but enevitably he does get a few off in the fight. Haveing a reliable blm that turns this fight from a hate reestablishing nightmare to a cake walk is really nice.

[aurik]

Pre-patch he flat-out resisted stun ~50% of the time or more.

[Mojo]

LBC was not changed with the last patch. The only changes to Salvage were the permit cost, the crate in the beginning, and cell drops. Some of those chainspell stuns were from pre-patch.

I am still very skeptical to LBC building a resistance to stun. I've never experienced anything to remotely suggest this. I have experienced enough to confidently say that it does resist any kind of spell period unless you have a lot of skill/accuracy. With a little bit of luck, it could easily be mistaken for building up a resistance to stun(if it indeed doesn't).

Odog, I'm curious to know what gear you use while stunning. I don't think 269 skill alone is enough to reach the point where resists would be minimal. BLM can get loads of dark magic skill and magic accuracy. I'd be curious to see your results with 300+ total skill and magic accuracy.