Newbie THF Advice

[Ardrial]

I am a 75 WHM but THF was my first job I leveled. I got it to 65 before switching over to WHM and finishing it off. I have decided that I should start leveling THF again and I was just wondering a few things when it comes to gear.

Generally how I use to play was: TA+DE the tank -> SA normal attack.
I generally almost always use Sole Sushi too and Marksmanship stays capped for Acid Bolts.

1.) For when I TA+DE, what type of gear you suggest I use? AGI for TA, ACC/ATT for DE damage?

2.) When there are times that I actually can SATA+DE, should I again focus on ACC/ATT, agi, or dex?

3.) Should I even worry about TA(agi) at all? I hear THFs saying they don't even worry about an AGI build.

4.) How beneficial is it to keep a Ranged Accuracy set for acid bolts?

[Loren]

1) Assuming a normal/good Atk + Acc situation, use DEX. Technically, AGI can be better in cases where the target has excessive defense or evasion (because your secondary hits are whiffing or hitting 0) but even in those cases it's best to just correct the problem with food/buff/debuff/etc.

2) Acc, Atk, STR, DEX, AGI, and nachos are all important to your DE damage but I'm extremely wary of broad statements of "stat X > stat Y" because then people will go off and apply that wisdom universally with no regard for the quantities involved or how much each is needed. If your WS accuracy or attack are bad, then remedying them will give you the most important improvements, but if they're already good then STR/DEX will add the most damage. Gotta constantly eyeball your Acc/Atk versus the target, it's an ongoing process. Rigid routines will not serve you well when it comes to mixed mobs in Limbus, Nyzul, etc.

Another important thing to note is that your armor slots are the one and only significant source of attribute bonuses (STR/DEX/AGI) whereas there are MANY ways to correct the Atk/Def and Acc/Eva ratios with your target. Food, SJ, songs, dice, acid bolts, Feint, etc. Hence, it's ideal to take care of Acc and Atk without using armor slots if possible so you leave the STR/DEX avenue open for maximum damage.

3) Those THFs are either misguided or lazy. My TA on Greater Colibri often hit in the 570-590 range, my X's knife friends can break 600 easy. For an ability that you're landing every 50-55 seconds, I don't see any justification for ignoring AGI considering MNKs will carry VIT and MND items for their 3-5 minute JAs.

4) In the middle levels, acid bolts are godly since people like to fight incredibly tough mobs with no BRD, a situation where your Atk is the worst casualty. However, most melee DD are stuck with sushi in those levels anyway so you don't need extreme R.Acc gear to land bolts, just some rings and maybe some Jaridah stuff. After 75, you'll find that acid bolt on a colibri or puk that lives for 30 seconds is not that hot, but they're still important to keep around for instance mobs. The 1/8 DEF reduction translates into about +14% to physical damage.

[Okuza]

Be wary of acid bolts. They're a wonderful free bonus if you shoot at stuff coming in (or pulling), hit, and get a free debuff. If you stand there plinking away forever until you get a hit, you're probably reducing overall dps more than you're helping it. You'll typically need sushi & r.acc gear swapped in to bolt reliably -- retry a 2nd shot only if you have a really high r.acc hit% on the stuff you're killing.

Separate macros help you adapt to different situations. I have and use all these on THF: sneak, trick, snick, de, shark, evisc, agi-set, dex-set, tp-set, ws-set, and lots of specialized ones that I put on the page at need (solo haste/eva, pure-eva, haste+acc, max-acc, r.acc, max. enmity, etc. etc.).

-=-=-=-

Trick+DE: first work to max your DE hits, then up your TA (ie. acc to about 85% or so, then agi). Extra ws hit usually beats more TA. You'll need to experiment to find a good mix, though.

Snick+DE: just like trick+de, but more dex will actually help both acc and is a modifier to DE and improves sneak bonus. So, I tend to favor DEX a lot more than ACC here. If you really want to maximize it, you have to play around with your gear mix.

No AGI? Hmm. I guess it depends on what kinds of fights you do. I like sneak damage more than trick damage, but at 75 pretty much everything will be spinning like a top; ie. landing sneak is far from a sure thing whereas landing trick is pretty damn easy. So, I absolutely have an AGI build and even favor AGI over DEX in pretty much all cases if I'm short on inventory or macro slots and need a DEX+AGI build.

R.Acc plus sushi is mandatory if you want to hit the broad side of a barn. IMHO, it's really only worth it for hard solo fights, though. I typically use meat for the few times I go XP on THF to rebuild dynamis losses (I merit on NIN).

[Eaglestrike]

1) Assuming a normal/good Atk + Acc situation, use DEX. Technically, AGI can be better in cases where the target has excessive defense or evasion (because your secondary hits are whiffing or hitting 0) but even in those cases it's best to just correct the problem with food/buff/debuff/etc.

2) Acc, Atk, STR, DEX, AGI, and nachos are all important to your DE damage but I'm extremely wary of broad statements of "stat X > stat Y" because then people will go off and apply that wisdom universally with no regard for the quantities involved or how much each is needed. If your WS accuracy or attack are bad, then remedying them will give you the most important improvements, but if they're already good then STR/DEX will add the most damage. Gotta constantly eyeball your Acc/Atk versus the target, it's an ongoing process. Rigid routines will not serve you well when it comes to mixed mobs in Limbus, Nyzul, etc.

Another important thing to note is that your armor slots are the one and only significant source of attribute bonuses (STR/DEX/AGI) whereas there are MANY ways to correct the Atk/Def and Acc/Eva ratios with your target. Food, SJ, songs, dice, acid bolts, Feint, etc. Hence, it's ideal to take care of Acc and Atk without using armor slots if possible so you leave the STR/DEX avenue open for maximum damage.

3) Those THFs are either misguided or lazy. My TA on Greater Colibri often hit in the 570-590 range, my X's knife friends can break 600 easy. For an ability that you're landing every 50-55 seconds, I don't see any justification for ignoring AGI considering MNKs will carry VIT and MND items for their 3-5 minute JAs.

4) In the middle levels, acid bolts are godly since people like to fight incredibly tough mobs with no BRD, a situation where your Atk is the worst casualty. However, most melee DD are stuck with sushi in those levels anyway so you don't need extreme R.Acc gear to land bolts, just some rings and maybe some Jaridah stuff. After 75, you'll find that acid bolt on a colibri or puk that lives for 30 seconds is not that hot, but they're still important to keep around for instance mobs. The 1/8 DEF reduction translates into about +14% to physical damage.

1) Agreed. Though I'll stress attack, not a whole lot of gear gives good amounts of attack though. But for instance Commanders Cape vs Amemet+1 is no contest, Amemet+1. As I've seen Archain post in the past he relies on attack from other places, and that's probably one problem of THF that we basically have to rely on those things. Once you're at a good amount of attack you'll reach the point where DEX increases your damage more than any other stat (ok ok, CHR would increase DMG more but going by gear options no)

2) Agreed, but I'll stand by my "Attack." line I use pretty much everytime these questions hit Alla. It is a THF's lowest base stat and one we generally need to work on the most.

3) Laziness ftw. Though now that I have LightLuggage I might consider having less space in my inventory. I've always wanted to collect all the drops other people don't when their bags are full XD

4) Depends on the party and mob type. If you're smart and go thf/war to exp parties then using sushi is fine and you'll be able to land acid bolts decently on most mobs. But be aware of mobs they don't land well on and high evasion mobs. Though I imagine it shouldn't be as hard to get a party that avoids annoying mobs when there's little competition.

[Ardrial]

1) Assuming a normal/good Atk + Acc situation, use DEX. Technically, AGI can be better in cases where the target has excessive defense or evasion (because your secondary hits are whiffing or hitting 0) but even in those cases it's best to just correct the problem with food/buff/debuff/etc.

2) Acc, Atk, STR, DEX, AGI, and nachos are all important to your DE damage but I'm extremely wary of broad statements of "stat X > stat Y" because then people will go off and apply that wisdom universally with no regard for the quantities involved or how much each is needed. If your WS accuracy or attack are bad, then remedying them will give you the most important improvements, but if they're already good then STR/DEX will add the most damage. Gotta constantly eyeball your Acc/Atk versus the target, it's an ongoing process. Rigid routines will not serve you well when it comes to mixed mobs in Limbus, Nyzul, etc.

Another important thing to note is that your armor slots are the one and only significant source of attribute bonuses (STR/DEX/AGI) whereas there are MANY ways to correct the Atk/Def and Acc/Eva ratios with your target. Food, SJ, songs, dice, acid bolts, Feint, etc. Hence, it's ideal to take care of Acc and Atk without using armor slots if possible so you leave the STR/DEX avenue open for maximum damage.

3) Those THFs are either misguided or lazy. My TA on Greater Colibri often hit in the 570-590 range, my X's knife friends can break 600 easy. For an ability that you're landing every 50-55 seconds, I don't see any justification for ignoring AGI considering MNKs will carry VIT and MND items for their 3-5 minute JAs.

4) In the middle levels, acid bolts are godly since people like to fight incredibly tough mobs with no BRD, a situation where your Atk is the worst casualty. However, most melee DD are stuck with sushi in those levels anyway so you don't need extreme R.Acc gear to land bolts, just some rings and maybe some Jaridah stuff. After 75, you'll find that acid bolt on a colibri or puk that lives for 30 seconds is not that hot, but they're still important to keep around for instance mobs. The 1/8 DEF reduction translates into about +14% to physical damage.

1) Agreed. Though I'll stress attack, not a whole lot of gear gives good amounts of attack though. But for instance Commanders Cape vs Amemet+1 is no contest, Amemet+1. As I've seen Archain post in the past he relies on attack from other places, and that's probably one problem of THF that we basically have to rely on those things. Once you're at a good amount of attack you'll reach the point where DEX increases your damage more than any other stat (ok ok, CHR would increase DMG more but going by gear options no)

2) Agreed, but I'll stand by my "Attack." line I use pretty much everytime these questions hit Alla. It is a THF's lowest base stat and one we generally need to work on the most.

3) Laziness ftw. Though now that I have LightLuggage I might consider having less space in my inventory. I've always wanted to collect all the drops other people don't when their bags are full XD

4) Depends on the party and mob type. If you're smart and go thf/war to exp parties then using sushi is fine and you'll be able to land acid bolts decently on most mobs. But be aware of mobs they don't land well on and high evasion mobs. Though I imagine it shouldn't be as hard to get a party that avoids annoying mobs when there's little competition.

Few questions:
I have acquired a Sirocco Kukri from Kreutzet the other day. Is it still better to go /war. I know that it is awesome for off-handing but I am pretty sure that it's not so much good for Mainhand.

I have been using a bomb core instead of acid bolts because bards have been pulling. Should I switch back to bothering with trying to get a bolt or two off and just lose out on the 12 attack?

Oh I also have an Assault Jerkin. I plan on using that for TP gain instead of SH and also for WS. Is that advisable or should I just use it for ws?

[Okuza]

I never use thf/war for xp; I do use thf/drk for hnm. Rest is all thf/nin. THF/war (really any dd/war) only pays off by exactly how well you can make berserk pay off. I'm always forgetting to keep it on at the right times, so thf/war sucks for me. If you're good at making berserk pay, you'll be good at thf/war and can make that pay off better than thf/nin.

You'll likely have to experiment with the rest. I draw the line on atk/acc at around 85%. Less than 85, I want more acc. Greater than 85, I like more atk. I'd say the same about a.bolts, too. Experiment. One free shot is usually nice if you can hit them pretty reliably. I leveled THF before THF could use a.bolts, so I only know how well they work at 75 and from watching other THFs when I leveled NIN. I don't bother with 'em at 75 and watching other lower THFs it always annoyed me when they shot over and over and over (missing the entire time) -- the THF was contributing nothing in that case.

[vagus]

/war is still the best for XP @ 75. A thf should not be pulling, if you don't have a bard, don't xp. lol. If you lack the haste / accuracy gear, /nin may be a better option.

[dawdr]

Few questions:
I have acquired a Sirocco Kukri from Kreutzet the other day. Is it still better to go /war. I know that it is awesome for off-handing but I am pretty sure that it's not so much good for Mainhand.

You're right about Sirocco being not so hot for mainhand use. Only use it if you're /Ninja and keep on trucking with whatever mainhander you already have.

I have been using a bomb core instead of acid bolts because bards have been pulling. Should I switch back to bothering with trying to get a bolt or two off and just lose out on the 12 attack?

Don't let having to pull force you to use a crossbow. Odds are very good you won't hit with crossbow anyway, and lots of the mobs we use these days are wind resistant or immune so the proc rate is pretty low. Darts are what I use to pull, with a swap in my ranged attack macro. They're ammo just like the Bomb Core, so you don't lose TP, though you will blink. Up side on the darts is they're the fastest ranged attack you can get, so they help you be a competitive puller. They're also dirt cheap from chocobo stables.

Oh I also have an Assault Jerkin. I plan on using that for TP gain instead of SH and also for WS. Is that advisable or should I just use it for ws?

I assume you're going the sushi route, which means that Assault Jerkin is probably your second best option if you have a Rapparee Harness, and more so if you have things like Bravo's Subligar, Swift Belt, and the crab hat of death. If you don't have the Rapparee however, the Jerkin is a solid choice for TP gain.

[Eaglestrike]

Few questions:
I have acquired a Sirocco Kukri from Kreutzet the other day. Is it still better to go /war. I know that it is awesome for off-handing but I am pretty sure that it's not so much good for Mainhand.

I have been using a bomb core instead of acid bolts because bards have been pulling. Should I switch back to bothering with trying to get a bolt or two off and just lose out on the 12 attack?

Oh I also have an Assault Jerkin. I plan on using that for TP gain instead of SH and also for WS. Is that advisable or should I just use it for ws?

It's going to depend on your type of party. If you're trying to do a burn-style party with bard, go /nin with the Kukri for sure. If you're doing VT-IT fights, /war and stick with a Harpe or something. The same applies to what to do about your ranged slot. If you're /war with sushi- xbow, if you're /nin in burn style then bomb core might be better for a little more attack and that xbow hit won't really be worth doing in quick kills.

For the Ass Jerkin, use it for everything if TPing (use Rap if you have that and a bard/cor or are just above 1.0 pDIF) with sushi, only for WS if meat.

As for /war vs /nin since that debate is brewing, my stance is: /war for 1-74 exping and before you have 1337 gears at 75. /war gives you a stronger base and /nin gives you a higher potential, but it's not clear cut and you really need to know the difference for yourself, because it depends on how you play/gear your THF.

[Ardrial]

Oh I also have an Assault Jerkin. I plan on using that for TP gain instead of SH and also for WS. Is that advisable or should I just use it for ws?

I assume you're going the sushi route, which means that Assault Jerkin is probably your second best option if you have a Rapparee Harness, and more so if you have things like Bravo's Subligar, Swift Belt, and the crab hat of death. If you don't have the Rapparee however, the Jerkin is a solid choice for TP gain.

Only question I have:

What's the crab hat of death?

[Eraphiel]

Only question I have:

What's the crab hat of death?

Methinks this, since it shares the model of the Carapace Helm.

[dawdr]

Indeed, the Patroclus's Helm. It makes me sad that things like the Walarhra Turban exist, because you cannot deny the coolness factor of looking like you killed and gutted a crab and stuck your head inside it.

[Eraphiel]

I personally loathe the look of Celata-type helms, sallets, etc. The robocop look is...ergh.
Still though, can't beat the stats off my Ace's, so fashion takes a backseat until I can find a custom .dat I like.

[Eaglestrike]

I personally loathe the look of Celata-type helms, sallets, etc. The robocop look is...ergh.
Still though, can't beat the stats off my Ace's, so fashion takes a backseat until I can find a custom .dat I like.

Well if you're an elvaan like you seem to be in your sig I think fashion takes a backseat just about always

[Eraphiel]

Touché...