RDM Group 2 Merits.

[Shin Volcano]

I'm really stomped on what to REALLY comeplete here...Atm i am 3/5 Paralyze and slow 2 but i honestly am not sure if i should bother maxing either one. DO having them level 5 even make a huge diffrence? or can i get away with just keeping 3.. 100k exp is alot to use to comeplete them, i see absolutly no reason to merit Blind II if so please..explain a good reason to, Same with Bio III Phalanx is hit or miss since i use other jobs for endgames mainly to not really use it (SCH) and Dia 3 really dosn't need an explanation.

[Thorny]

and Dia 3 really dosn't need an explanation.

Dia 3 is incredibly useful in any situation where melee are involved, since it's an additional -5/90 defense and cannot be replaced by anything any other job does(I realize angon roar etc lower defense, but they do not take up the dia debuff spot). I had 5 slow/5 dia and didn't ever regret it.. though I realize some people like para 2. I would recommend anyone at least get level 1 dia3 as you can recast it a few times during a zerg at no major penalty.

[Shin Volcano]

I have it level 1 and really do want to put more into dia 3 i am just not sure if i should give up 2 level 5 paralyze and slow for it, because right now it is level 1 and sucks balls because it dosn't last long enough, and for 45 MP a pop it does add up to alot of MP usage.

[Aragon of Odin]

Depends on what you do. If you do a lot of HNM then yes, Slow 2 is very much worth it capped. I enjoy Para 2 a lot but others can make good arguments against it.

Personally right now I'm 3/5 Slow 2, Para 2 and Bio 3, with one in Phalanx 2. I used to solo a lot so found the Bio merits to be ok, gotten away from that now so planning on dropping all of them and capping Slow 2 and making Para 2 4/5.

Phalanx 2 I love for Salvage 1st floor. Having mobs hit your tanks for 0 or close to 0 makes it so worth while.

Merits should be aimed towards what you do most in-game so what would be most helpful. I always had a healthy mix of solo/hnm/events, but now solo kind of out of the question so Bio 3 not looking too hot anymore.

[FailureMidgard]

I have it level 1 and really do want to put more into dia 3 i am just not sure if i should give up 2 level 5 paralyze and slow for it, because right now it is level 1 and sucks balls because it dosn't last long enough, and for 45 MP a pop it does add up to alot of MP usage.

Speaking more as a melee than a red mage (mine is almost 69...getting there...), I'd think 2 points in Dia3 is solid. Some mobs in salvage/etc survive longer than 30 seconds, very few things outside of bosses will survive past 60 seconds. And I'm just assuming most good red mages are casting Dia on every mob to speed up clear time. In a zerg, 1 minute should have most things dead, 30 seconds is cutting it close. For other boss things, that's where slow2 or para2 is really gonna shine, and I think those merits sound better than the 3rd or 4th point in Dia3.

I know my plan was 2 pts in Dia3 when my RDM hits 75...I'm still undecided on the rest of the distribution, was thinking maybe 5slow3, and 3 in either phalanx2 or paralyze3.

[Shin Volcano]

So is there a cap on slow and para 2? i'm not sure how much more MND you would need vs The Tier 1 of them...or is it just the more MND the better...(not counting skill)

[Aragon of Odin]

I think I remember reading where someone (maybe Kirschy) had found that there was a cap on Slow 2, and that raising the merits raised DMND or something, been a while so can't remember but I'm sure if you did a search you'd find it. I think Lord Wafik also did some testing for Para 2 and dedicated a thread to it (maybe it was someone else, can't remember).

Either way I doubt it's possible to hit the cap on end game mobs if there is one. More MND the better.

Edit: It was Belkin not LordWafik, here is the link.
http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/59134...e-testing.html

Edit2: Here is the link to Kirschys Slow testing.
http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/58770...o-slow-ii.html

[drwaffles]

I don't understand Paralyze II's popularity at all. It costs exactly six times more MP to cast than Paralyze, and it doesn't proc even twice as much... Statistically speaking, it's possible that it could even proc less than Paralyze on any given occasion since procs are, by nature, chance-based. Like I've said before, the only time I ever wished I had Paralyze II merited was when soloing Rapido. Aside from that, it's a gigantic waste of MP.

Dia III, Bio III and Phalanx II are all fantastically useful spells in their own right (with Bio III and Dia III being mathematically more efficient than their second-tier counterparts if merited sufficiently).

[Crizto]

Personally I went 4/5 Bio3, 3/5 Slow2, 3/5 Phalanx2. It's really based on what you do. I only merited Bio3 because I like to solo a lot on RDM, and it can make certain fights a lot quicker and a little safer too. I used to have2 or 3 merits in Paralyze2, but there were a lot of times where I'd cast it, it would proc once and then proceed to be useless, so I just thought fuck it. I don't feel it's worth the MP cost in most situations.

[Phraust]

This may sound dumb at first, but if you merited 1 in Bio III, that would overwrite all other Dia/Bio debuffs and guarantee it will fade in 30 seconds right? So if shit was getting hairy, andyou need to sleep it and you're waiting for a dia/bio to fade, you could in theory toss on a Bio III, survive for 30 seconds(with an added attack down on the mob or whatever) and then sleep it? Good Idea? Bad Idea? So rare it wouldn't matter idea?

[FailureMidgard]

This may sound dumb at first, but if you merited 1 in Bio III, that would overwrite all other Dia/Bio debuffs and guarantee it will fade in 30 seconds right? So if shit was getting hairy, andyou need to sleep it and you're waiting for a dia/bio to fade, you could in theory toss on a Bio III, survive for 30 seconds(with an added attack down on the mob or whatever) and then sleep it? Good Idea? Bad Idea? So rare it wouldn't matter idea?

Only worth it if you have a decent # in Dia3...otherwise, put 1 in Dia3, and you can use it for that, or you can use it to help out melee in zerg/salvage/merits/whatever.

[Thorny]

This may sound dumb at first, but if you merited 1 in Bio III, that would overwrite all other Dia/Bio debuffs and guarantee it will fade in 30 seconds right? So if shit was getting hairy, andyou need to sleep it and you're waiting for a dia/bio to fade, you could in theory toss on a Bio III, survive for 30 seconds(with an added attack down on the mob or whatever) and then sleep it? Good Idea? Bad Idea? So rare it wouldn't matter idea?

Might apply on tiamat once in a blue moon if shit goes badly, but most mobs you keep bio or dia on and would have a need to sleep also have poison on them >_>

[Drex]

Dia III 2/5
Phalanx II 2/5
Slow II 1/5
Paralyze II 5/5

do eet, if your tank really needs the ~5% extra slow from 5/5 slow 2, someone else in your LS probably has it anyway

-Blind II is pretty much useless.
-Extra macc and %slow on maxxing slow2 is almost always overkill, especially with elegy. Mobs are a joke to tank with elegy+1/5 Slow II in full mind gear. Resist rate is still very low, except on the fights where resist rate is ALWAYS bad, like sky gods or toau hnms.
-Dia III 2/5 makes it 1 minute for CS stuns or just convenience, could leave this 1/5 but like you said it eats up MP fast that way.
-Phalanx II 2/5 syncs it with refresh duration for ease of use and keeping it on tank (if you use yarnball, can do refresh=>phalanx2 and your refresh timer is your phalanx2 timer as well).
-Bio III is nice for hardcore soloists, but in group events it's just 22 merits for something a BLM could've done with some dark magic skill.

Para procs = awesome, especially on spells or during utsu cast. If MP is an issue (soloing, mainhealing at an event, healer MP low) you can always switch back to para 1, but the majority of the time MP shouldn't be an issue anyway.

[pchan]

I don't understand Paralyze II's popularity at all. It costs exactly six times more MP to cast than Paralyze, and it doesn't proc even twice as much... Statistically speaking, it's possible that it could even proc less than Paralyze on any given occasion since procs are, by nature, chance-based. Like I've said before, the only time I ever wished I had Paralyze II merited was when soloing Rapido. Aside from that, it's a gigantic waste of MP.

Dia III, Bio III and Phalanx II are all fantastically useful spells in their own right (with Bio III and Dia III being mathematically more efficient than their second-tier counterparts if merited sufficiently).

Paralyze II is definitely more powerful than praralyze I, and your argument for the ratio mp/effect doesn't work for slow either. The difference is that due to it's nature you will have to cast paralyze more often (I or II) since it's seems to be a random 30s-2min duration unlike the static (beside reists) duration of slow. As rdm, my job is to debuff the target, it's not to bot refresh and cure. Paralyze II is better, so it's definately a must. I'd say paralyze (II) is as much useful as slow(II), each proc save shadows and makes tanking incredibly easier and therefore killing speed better.

In the end it depends how people have you play rdm or how you play rdm ; if debuffing is not what you do then don't bother, in all serious endgame you'll have a WHM though, so debuffing will be your primarly task. Yes it costs a lot of MP, but it is more efficent.

I personally did 3/5 in paralyze, slow, 4/5 in phalanx. Absolutely all those spells are situational. For example I pretty much only use slow/para on salvage NMs & boss or at least mobs that are worth it (chariot, doors, ramparts etc) otherwise they are not worth the mp. The only exception is when you low man a zone (3-4) when killing speed is much slower, they are definitely a plus. Phalanx II is exclusively limited to first floor, after that it's useless, and you can seriously question the idea of going 5/5. Dia III is way too much for every single mob you'll kill.

[drwaffles]

My point was that at least the other spells (such as Slow II) provide a consistent improvement over their lower-tier counterparts. There's no guarantee that Paralyze II will actually proc enough to justify the extra MP cost on any given cast, which is why I don't like it.

[Demosthenes11]

it's been said but it depends on what you do
personally, I did:
1 slow II
1 para II
5 Phalanx II
3 dia III

edit: pchan dear god

[Ahlah]

Taking into consideration of the mp cost/group II merit limit/situation, Dia III is really not a good choice. Name a situation when you wish you had Dia III merited, instead of Bio III and Slow II.

In merit party it's not justified to burn 45mp on a mob which dies in 20-30sec. The extra mp could have been put to much better use (haste, cure), 2h melee can keep hasso up a bit longer etc. If you feel obliged to debuff merit mob, Dia II is more than enough. In case of meleezerg, the extra 5% defense down is not going to make a huge difference.

[Thorny]

Name a situation when you wish you had Dia III merited, instead of Bio III and Slow II.

Kirin
JoL
Baha2
King Vinegaroon

In case of meleezerg, the extra 5% defense down is not going to make a huge difference.

... on a mob with 15 lv correction and 600 def, that's going to amp a decent DD up by about 7-8% actual damage due to defense factoring before level correction

[Ahlah]

Can you beat those mobs you just mentioned with only DiaII?

Compared to Angon/Feint, the benefit of Dia III is negligible.

[Seraph]

Can you beat those mobs you just mentioned with only DiaII?

Compared to Angon/Feint, the benefit of Dia III is negligible.

Wrong. By your logic the reasonable choice is to cast Dia 1, and then why cast Dia at all? I can't really see any reason not to have at least 1 merit in Dia3. It's just too potentially useful where it is actually used.

Coordinating merits with a different RDM is another story, but for the single RDM on the go...