What Constitutes a Linkshell as a "HNM Linkshell"

[Eanae]

I got into an argument on BG irc about what constitutes a linkshell as an "HNM Linkshell" and was curious what people on BG think. The discussion started after I mentioned that a linkshell on Cerberus was refering to themselves as an HNM ls without claiming any kings, wyrms, or wracking in any other notable world spawn kills. Note that this isn't to say they're not successful at other things in the game such as Limbus, Dynamis, and other instanced or force popped events. The other side of the arguement is that killing mobs such as Kirin, Ouryu, Odin, and Bahamut v2 on a regular basis can count as HNMs and make a linkshells claims to be an HNM linkshell true. So BG, I ask you, when you hear a claim that a LS is an HNM ls, what do you think of?

[Seanr]

If a LS be killin any of those named mobs up there i would count them as an HNMLS

[Aurara]

HNM shells do HNM, simple and easy as that. To me, a shell that doesn't do kings/wyrms is just a "event" linkshell.

[Jeryhn]

It's semantics really. Some people use the words "HNM" and "endgame" when describing their linkshell interchangeably.

[Vedder]

Are you talking about JPonry? Cuz, lol.

As for your question, I don't think there's much to be gained or denied from a HNMLS distinction. They're all End Game or Event LSes, some just have a higher activity level or success rate over others. There's more of a distinction between botting / non-botting LSes than HNM / non-HNM LSes.

If someone says "HNMLS" though, honestly I think of botting LSes.

[Eanae]

Are you talking about JPonry? Cuz, lol.

Yeah.

[Zosi]

To reiterate what I said in IRC:

Who gives a shit what some random guy on your server calls his LS in /shouts? If he wants to call it a "HNMLS" when all they do is scheduled events, go for it. The word itself has become pretty much meaningless over the past few years due to the shifting nature of end-game. Really, there's only two groups of people who get up in arms about the difference between "HNMLS" and "end-game LS": the first are the hardcore botting "won't miss a Fafnir for their own wedding" kind who use the distinction to insult LSs that they feel aren't hardcore enough, and the second are the casual end-gamers who want to distance themselves as much as possible from the hardcore ones. The people in the middle don't really care, for the most part - it's arguing over semantics, they do what want to do and call themselves whichever they're most used to.

By the way, if you're going to repeat my arguments, at least get them right. I said that Ouryu and Bahamut 2 were HNMs when they were released, and Kirin certainly was a HNM at some point. When I started end-game, there were only two NA LSs on my server that could kill Kirin - you bet we considered them HNMLSs, and we would've even if all they killed was sky gods + Kirin. The whole point wasn't that killing Kirin instantly makes you an honest-to-god HNMLS, it was that the definition isn't as simple as "bottable world-spawns" and changes over time. Honestly, nowadays I wouldn't even consider a LS that only does Fafhogg to be an "HNMLS" - the mobs are outdated jokes, the only difficulty is getting a good bot and people who won't fall asleep between windows.

[Seanr]

I'm in the middle really... I could give two shits, and I really don't see why people care.

[Killgannon]

ive always used endgame LS fuck the HNM designation, you are doing end game events with other lvl 75 players that only you can do really, who cares about which specific end game events you are doing

[Dooom]

When I hear HNMLS, I think of camping. When I hear Endgame LS, I think of scheduled events with minimal non-popped NMs (e.g. sky or sea). It's not a difference which matters in the slightest, though, and anyone getting worked up about it should chill.

[Cadsuane]

Not doing ground pops makes you just an event shell in my book. I thought that was everyone's nomenclature.

[Iremire]

When I hear HNMLS, I think of camping. When I hear Endgame LS, I think of scheduled events with minimal non-popped NMs (e.g. sky or sea). It's not a difference which matters in the slightest, though, and anyone getting worked up about it should chill.

^ this

[Duber]

It's all about semantics, who cares ? HNMLS are who do HNMs.

In my opinion Sky, Sea, Bahamut, etc could be considered HNMs, so it's fine.

If you want to refer specifically to camped HNMs you could just say Botters or Bot-LS :D

j/k take it easy

[test123]

Behemoth and King Arthro is both easy solo/2box. But some think behemoth is a HNM and KA is just a NM.

HNM is NMs you normally would not be able to kill solo/low man(think 1year after release)

[Eanae]

I'm not getting worked up over it, I was merely curious because I also thought camping ground kings / wyrms / worm/ix was the general accepted means of being an HNMLS, and Zosi disagreed so I was curious if the general opinion changed.

[Dooom]

I'm not getting worked up over it

Oh, I didn't mean to imply you were; just that after the past few days of arguing over the elemental wheel in Random Question, well, who knows how people feel about these things!

[Colenzo]

camping Behemoth, Roc, Simurgh, Serket = HNM shell

[ronin sparthos]

HNMLS = Endgame LS = Event LS, its as simple as that.

If you are doing any endgame events created with level 75s in mind with the same people on a frequent basis then you are an HNM linkshell.

From 6man ANNM battles, Salvage, Fay Augments, Sky, Sea, ZNM to WOTG NMs and beyond it is all endgame content. You'd be surprised to find out that most of the ANNMs and Fay Augment battles are designed to be harder than the standard "Fafnir" model of endgame.

Anywho, its been said before. The only people that tier endgame content are hyper-elite shells that want to validate their own existence by tiering endgame events.

[Colenzo]

HNMLS = Endgame LS = Event LS, its as simple as that.

If you are doing any endgame events created with level 75s in mind with the same people on a frequent basis then you are an HNM linkshell.

From 6man ANNM battles, Salvage, Fay Augments, Sky, Sea, ZNM to WOTG NMs and beyond it is all endgame content. You'd be surprised to find out that most of the ANNMs and Fay Augment battles are designed to be harder than the standard "Fafnir" model of endgame.

Anywho, its been said before. The only people that tier endgame content are hyper-elite shells that want to validate their own existence by tiering endgame events.

We call those End Game Shells, not HNM shells. Unless you are talking about sandworm and ixion or something.

[Nevex]

Any LS that is capable of killing every HNM there is (open to debate for Vrtra), whether they camp or not, can be called a HNMLS. This implies that they already killed most of them at least once.
Not wanting to waste time against botters when you can get most of the same drops from Odin doesn't remove the "HNMLS" status.