Soboro Grips

[Zilong]

While Pole Strap is more or less standard for most 2 hander, It is somewhat counterproductive on Soboro since it doubles pretty often as it is, and it overwrites triple procs, leaving it only useful for the 1 hit procs and WS.

My SAM is currently 65, and I have a choice in holding on to my mythril grip +1 (2 STR, 2 ACC, 2 VIT) or using Axe Grip (3 STR), Sword Strap (-3% delay), Claymore Grip (+3% Crit) and Platinum Grip+1 (3 ACC, Stun effect ??%)

Which of those would be most beneficial for grinding to 75, and which would be best for meriting at 75? Also, does anyone have any documentation of platinum grip's procrate?

[VZX]

Which of those would be most beneficial for grinding to 75, and which would be best for meriting at 75? Also, does anyone have any documentation of platinum grip's procrate?

I forgot which thread, it was posted here.. The number is aroudn 10-15% activation rate

[Amele]

claymore was my choice.

sword strap fucks store tp.
mythril is the only one that's close to claymore imo. and it would come down to whether you had a need for more acc or not.

I don't have much experience with axe grip. (str+3) but might be a good choice if your primary concern is WS damage and not dot.


stun proc rate varies based on mob strength. seems to be between never and 15% depending on account.

[Mansin]

As far as EXP goes I would use Soboro with the Platinum Grip. I'm no Samurai, but my last party I was in with my ninja had a samurai with soboro and Plat+1. It was awesome, the mob was stunned so retardedly often I went a few times for two fights on one :ni.

[Zilong]

Hmmm, how much store TP is required to 6 hit with sword strap?

[Saraphym]

i like claymore the best, but platinum is not bad either.

[Amele]

Hmmm, how much store TP is required to 6 hit with sword strap?

(I'll assume you mean with a 450 delay weapon)

3% delay would make it a 437 delay weapon,
437 delay would give a tp total of 11.1 per hit.

to get six hits you need to generate 16.7 tp per hit average.

this is a total store TP requirement of +51 (compare to +46 on normal six hits)

this means using two pieces of store tp gear, instead of one. which is generally a loss of 3% haste + some misc. stats.

it is worth considering if you've got askar or usu.body and usu. shoes (at which point you're wearing 7+5(6)+5+1+35 -> 53 store tp) since you won't lose six hit and don't yet have enough for five hit with a 450 delay weapon; but if you're not in that situation it's generally not worth it.

[Aymee]

Amele's very detailed mathematical explanation was a great explanation--so much so it made my head hurt trying to read. Well actually no, I do understand it. The need of an extra swing to WS is rather important.

Instead of using math, I'm going to use the conventional melee logic of what's adored and whored in gear.
In order of importance [to me]: +Double Attack, +Haste/-Delay, +Crits, attk/acc/+stats and whatever else.

+DA is seemingly pointless with Soboro.
-Delay has been proven to ruin your TP gain
Thus we are left on the third choice. +Criticals.

*Ding* Claymore. We're running on the assumption you have +str from other gear and your accuracy is fine (since it's now impossible to have bad accuracy at higher levels).

I'm to 70SAM now... I use Claymore with soboro and Pole with 'normal' GKTs. The soboro seems sillier and sillier each level but I know that's all personal preference.

[Capo]

please correct me if this is wrong but a sam i know swears blind that DA can stack with triple proc on soboro giving you a 4 hit round. i questioned him but he was adamant, and the info on wiki backed this up.
if this is true then wouldnt it make sense to use pole strap?

[Ferien]

He's wrong. You can not attack more than 3 times with a Soboro, and a trait-based Double Attack will proc before Soboro.

[Saraphym]

but hexastrike with kraken is 48 hits


seriously; DA cant proc on multi hit weapons

[Aymee]

please correct me if this is wrong but a sam i know swears blind that DA can stack with triple proc on soboro giving you a 4 hit round. i questioned him but he was adamant, and the info on wiki backed this up.
if this is true then wouldnt it make sense to use pole strap?

Sea weapons CAN, others (inc soboro) cannot. (Please don't kill me if I've forgotten and have the sea weapons wrong... it's been awhile)

As far as I know, a multi-hit job trait cannot proc on top of a multi-hit weapon. I've never seen a Soboro swipe 4 times. Or a ridill 4, or my joyeuse 3 times, etc. The proc of DA happens before the attack but gets overwritten by the weapon proc, and not in the reverse. This is one reason why I see some WARs (myself included) giving up joyeuse offhand with a COR in the PT... we DA so much that the joyeuse is stupidly redundant.
In other words, having +DA or /war for SAM using soboro would only result in 'bonus' hits over other gear/subs when 1) the soboro is only 1-hit that round, and 2) your DA procs. Let's say that's roughly 1/3rd of the time, and 20%, respectively. That would mean you get 1 extra attack every 15 rounds, roughly. That's assuming you're SAM/WAR. If you're SAM/THF with pole grip (+2% DA), well... 0.33*0.02 is a really really low percentage. You'd get 1 attack extra every 133 rounds. Scold anyone using soboro with anything but WAR sub if they have a pole strap on, lol.

Sea weapon: "Attack!" > "DA"" > "Ok yes", and "Attack!" > "proc stone?" > "Ok yes" are separate processes so you can get an extra hit. Mainhand DAs but weapon procs as well, so the first hit is main+stone (1+1), then your offhand. 3 total.
Anything else: "Attack!" > "DA?" > "Ok yes" > "Multi hit weapon?" > "yea, give me 2 attacks" is the only order. Whatever result comes out at the end of the line overwrites. Note also that on WS it won't go past the Job Trait multi-hit... weapons can't proc multihit in WS, otherwise you'd see amusingly wrong things like 3k Vorpals out of Ridills in merit PTs.

If your friend is claiming 4 swipes in a round, I'd venture to say he's hasted/has haste gear/has march/whatever and the delay is so low it just looks like 4x. It's as close to '100 GKTs' as you can get, just like NINs THFs and WARs can enter '100 xxx' mode when at haste cap--constant attacks with no visible delay to the player.

[Capo]

ok yeah i was pretty sure it behaved the same as ridill, so thanks for clearing that up. the guy who told me is a bit of a retard and probably cant even count to four.

[Ferien]

Testing done with Ridill shows two things:

1. Number of hits per round is not evenly distributed. Ridill procs as a triple significantly less often than double or single.

2. Trait-based Double or Triple Attack proc first, and eliminate any possibility for the weapon to proc. This was tested with Warrior's Charge, and I believe with Assassin's Charge as well, and in both tests, Ridill NEVER proc'd anything differently than what the ability told it to.

Assuming these findings can be carried over to Soboro, which they most likely can, you see that not only does DA reduce your chance to get a triple proc, it also effectively lowers your average hits/round.

[Zarath]

Assuming these findings can be carried over to Soboro, which they most likely can, you see that not only does DA reduce your chance to get a triple proc, it also effectively lowers your average hits/round.

Yes it can be, I've tested this with warrior's roll and it seems the likelyhood of triple atk gets lowered significantly than without.

[Amele]

please correct me if this is wrong but a sam i know swears blind that DA can stack with triple proc on soboro giving you a 4 hit round. i questioned him but he was adamant, and the info on wiki backed this up.
if this is true then wouldnt it make sense to use pole strap?

which wiki said this? if it's BG's I'll go make sure the information isn't ambiguous

[Zarath]

please correct me if this is wrong but a sam i know swears blind that DA can stack with triple proc on soboro giving you a 4 hit round. i questioned him but he was adamant, and the info on wiki backed this up.
if this is true then wouldnt it make sense to use pole strap?

which wiki said this? if it's BG's I'll go make sure the information isn't ambiguous

Probably the other wiki, if this were true, I'd be seeing triple atks on my joytoy

[Talisien]

I recently made the switch from Myth+1 to Claymore and I have to say I\'ve been very pleased with the results.

I haven\'t done any side by side testing, but it felt like a decent boost of crits and my ws/dot damage wasn\'t noticeably affected.

[Aymee]

Perfect solution--
Since the average tank (50%++) is going to be completely helpless in holding hate vs a SAM with some misc support merits and decent gear throwing a soboro around, use the -enmity strap, lol. Trying to not die in the mire when I can't even throw up third eye (seigan up 100% of the time already) makes me sad. Sure it sucks everywhere, but I can at least attempt to defend myself on other mobs. To be honest I haven't tried this, but unless a random pickup tank can let me go all-out while exping I figure it couldn't hurt -.-

Oh, and before you scold me for using soboro there and at lvl70ish exping, remember that a 100-150TP or so WS from a 'normal' GKT is probably going to do more dmg than a 300TP soboro WS when amnesia wears, so I don't consider it bad or gimp for the PT. Dying is also bad.

P.S.: Dear the 71drg/32nin that was in the mire saturday night at about 3am eastern-- ...wth @ you.

[Capo]

yeah was on the old wiki, this guy told me about the 4hit thing before the big wiki drama. thats how long its been bugging me for lol, then i saw this thread and seemed like a good place to ask.

also stun grip would probably help more than -enmity grip at keeping you alive