RDM Tankage Advice

[Callisto]

I'm going to attempt tanking as RDM soon(mostly out of neccesity lol, we're low on people and need a 2nd tank), and I was looking for some pointers. My LS has 0 experience in using RDM tanks, and minimal NIN/DRK experience(we pretty much have 1 PLD/NIN tank for everything, sometimes a NIN/DRK backup). I understand the basics of RDM tanking like the hate cycle and whatnot, and I basically just need Emnity gear for it, but I have a few questions:

Considering I want to stay away from Emnity merits(I still have to think about my COR and BRD), should I be looking to DW beaver tails(Marshootyw/e +1's), or should I be able to get reasonably enough emnity w/o them? Would be trying for Resentment Cape/Mermaid's Ring/Harmonia's Torque, etc, although Sattva would be out).

Considering my co-tank would be a PLD/NIN, would I need to have him lower his emnity a little to be able to keep up? He usually tanks in about +23 I think.

Should I be requesting time at the start of the fight to spam my cycle and build hate before the DDs hop in, or can they just TA me off the bat and get right to the DD action?

Any other advice is appreciated...thanks, in advance.

[Therin]

PLD/NIN's enmity level is based on how fast they can hit the hate cap from casting Flash and curing themselves. A PLD with very little enmity can cap their hate, so he doesn't need much enmity gear at all. He should be using as much haste as possible, really, with enmity in the slots where there isn't any. +20-25 enmity and 18-22% Haste is optimal for PLD.

As for you, I'd try to get +15-20 enmity. With all of that, switching between AF2 hat and Turban (for shadows), Nashira, haste belt, etc., you can keep up fairly well. And yes, dual wield Mac+1's.

As for time to get hate - you'll need about 5 casts of spells before the DD can start. A PLD needs less time because they can Flash, Shield Bash, and open another JA and be set. Alternatively, if you're tanking something that has a set time limit (Ultima or Omega, for instance), you can open with Chainspell Binds to get yourself capped really fast.

It's really easy, but don't cry too much when you get two-shotted by any of the hard-hitting monsters (Tiamat, Khimaira, etc.).

[Seditedi]

PLD/NIN's enmity level is based on how fast they can hit the hate cap from casting Flash and curing themselves. A PLD with very little enmity can cap their hate, so he doesn't need much enmity gear at all. He should be using as much haste as possible, really, with enmity in the slots where there isn't any. +20-25 enmity and 18-22% Haste is optimal for PLD.

As for you, I'd try to get +15-20 enmity. With all of that, switching between AF2 hat and Turban (for shadows), Nashira, haste belt, etc., you can keep up fairly well. And yes, dual wield Mac+1's.

As for time to get hate - you'll need about 5 casts of spells before the DD can start. A PLD needs less time because they can Flash, Shield Bash, and open another JA and be set. Alternatively, if you're tanking something that has a set time limit (Ultima or Omega, for instance), you can open with Chainspell Binds to get yourself capped really fast.

It's really easy, but don't cry too much when you get two-shotted by any of the hard-hitting monsters (Tiamat, Khimaira, etc.).

Don't use turban for RDM tanking unless you are a dummy.
AF1 hat gives the same amount of recast reduction with a bonus of -10% spellcasting time >_>


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Now playing: Opeth - White Cluster
via FoxyTunes

[Therin]

PLD/NIN's enmity level is based on how fast they can hit the hate cap from casting Flash and curing themselves. A PLD with very little enmity can cap their hate, so he doesn't need much enmity gear at all. He should be using as much haste as possible, really, with enmity in the slots where there isn't any. +20-25 enmity and 18-22% Haste is optimal for PLD.

As for you, I'd try to get +15-20 enmity. With all of that, switching between AF2 hat and Turban (for shadows), Nashira, haste belt, etc., you can keep up fairly well. And yes, dual wield Mac+1's.

As for time to get hate - you'll need about 5 casts of spells before the DD can start. A PLD needs less time because they can Flash, Shield Bash, and open another JA and be set. Alternatively, if you're tanking something that has a set time limit (Ultima or Omega, for instance), you can open with Chainspell Binds to get yourself capped really fast.

It's really easy, but don't cry too much when you get two-shotted by any of the hard-hitting monsters (Tiamat, Khimaira, etc.).

Don't use turban for RDM tanking unless you are a dummy.
AF1 hat gives the same amount of recast reduction with a bonus of -10% spellcasting time >_>


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Now playing: Opeth - White Cluster
via FoxyTunes

Oh, didn't know it was 5%. Shitty Fast Cast effects on Homam legs and Loq. Earring are quite less, so I assumed it was similar.

[Callisto]

I guess that brings up another question:

I don't have any Haste gear really(Turban, but no point in using Turban as RDM), but I have all of the FastCast gear possible, should I be able to get buy well enough with those 3 pieces and Haste/March#2?

Secondly, I don't currently have AF2 Hat or Dalmatica, is keeping up the hate spam exceedingly difficult with only 5/tick? Would be going on the assumption that most fights would involve me Refreshing myself and the PLD, and both of us getting March/Ballad.

[Seditedi]

Haha
np
Rest of the info is dead on though.

edit:

Oh, didn't know it was 5%. Shitty Fast Cast effects on Homam legs and Loq. Earring are quite less, so I assumed it was similar.

Yeah. RDM actually gets good FC pieces, AF2 body and AF1 hat are -10% Spellcasting Time/-5% recast time respectively.

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Now playing: Porcupine Tree - Trains
via FoxyTunes

[Therin]

I guess that brings up another question:

I don't have any Haste gear really(Turban, but no point in using Turban as RDM), but I have all of the FastCast gear possible, should I be able to get buy well enough with those 3 pieces and Haste/March#2?

Secondly, I don't currently have AF2 Hat or Dalmatica, is keeping up the hate spam exceedingly difficult with only 5/tick? Would be going on the assumption that most fights would involve me Refreshing myself and the PLD, and both of us getting March/Ballad.

I'd definitely try to invest in at least Dusk Gloves, but as for the rest, you should be fine. Though you really, really do need at least a Swift Belt. =/

Most tank parties with RDM/NIN have a second RDM in them to keep Refreshes up so that the tanking RDM can concentrate on tanking. He normally hastes and refreshes himself, but no one else.

Also, generally you're going to want to use Marchx2, or at least most PLDs do. Ballad is useless on PLD since Auto-Refresh/Parade Gorget. It's much better to cap your Ichi and Ni recasts.

If you're having trouble with MP (I know a PLD won't, but not sure on RDM) and only using two tanks you can always use a second BRD for Ballads, or if you don't want to use the slot full-time then just cycle him in.

PLD/NIN
RDM/NIN
RDM/???
WHM/BLM
BRD (March x2)
BRD (Ballad x2)

That would work fine.

[Septimus]

PLD/NIN's enmity level is based on how fast they can hit the hate cap from casting Flash and curing themselves. A PLD with very little enmity can cap their hate, so he doesn't need much enmity gear at all. He should be using as much haste as possible, really, with enmity in the slots where there isn't any. +20-25 enmity and 18-22% Haste is optimal for PLD.

As for you, I'd try to get +15-20 enmity. With all of that, switching between AF2 hat and Turban (for shadows), Nashira, haste belt, etc., you can keep up fairly well. And yes, dual wield Mac+1's.

As for time to get hate - you'll need about 5 casts of spells before the DD can start. A PLD needs less time because they can Flash, Shield Bash, and open another JA and be set. Alternatively, if you're tanking something that has a set time limit (Ultima or Omega, for instance), you can open with Chainspell Binds to get yourself capped really fast.

It's really easy, but don't cry too much when you get two-shotted by any of the hard-hitting monsters (Tiamat, Khimaira, etc.).

Don't use turban for RDM tanking unless you are a dummy.
AF1 hat gives the same amount of recast reduction with a bonus of -10% spellcasting time >_>

You beat me to it. Even at level 75 Warlock's Chapeau is one of the best pieces of RDM equipment. So sexy when paired with Duelist's Tabard, or as I like to call it: "I can't believe it's not Chainspell!"

[Seditedi]

I wouldn't make a RDM tank responsible to refresh or haste him/herself.
The other RDM in the tank party can take care of all that.

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Now playing: Red Hot Chili Peppers - Dani California

[chapstick]

^ What he said. Try to get a swift belt and some dusk gloves. Enmity wise, +10-15 will be good. 2 swords and resentment cape is already +10. Refresh gear (chapeau, dalm) are great but if you have at least one ballad on you should be okay on MP. With 2 brds and a whm supporting you, as well as a PLD/NIN co-tank, you will be fine long as you can count to 3.

[Merkury]

I have a question for RDM tanking JoL. Ive never really tanked on rdm but was planning on tanking next JoL just for hell of it. Should i bother with subbing nin when he spams so many aga's? I was thinking rdm/pld for auto-refresh and using flash/sentinel etc for hate.

[Seditedi]

Yah, don't forget you can convert also; just have to time it correctly so you don't get yourself killed

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Now playing: Porcupine Tree - Deadwing

[Callisto]

Swift Belt shouldn't be a huge issue to get, I despise capped stuff but if it's that important I'll get it. For the rest of it I'm trying to find a line between putting together a tanking set that isn't gimped to fuck and actually being able to start tanking within the next month, since gil is an issue up to a certain point. I was doing well farming Sky gems for awhile, but now there are 90 people in Sky every goddamn night. :/

As of now I was looking at something along the lines of this for my normal tanking setup:

Macuahuitl +1 x2(or Terra Staff if I could get enough emnity otherwise I would think)
Lamia Kaman
Warlock's Chapeau +1
Harmonia's Torque
Hollow Earring(I could find something different, this is just my base l.earring b/c of my normal macro setup)
Loq. Earring
Duelist's Tabard
Warlock's Gloves +1
Balhran's Ring(this is just my standard left ring, I'm not sure what would be better to use in this slot for tanking)
Mermaid's Ring(my normal right ring is Tamas, obviously that won't work out for tanking)
Resentment Cape(if the gd NM ever pops on Ramuh...)
Warwolf Belt(swapping Swift for Utsu/SS)
Crimson Cuisses(not sure if there would be something better, was figuring these for the high def/resists)
Crimson Greaves(same deal as the Cuisses, figuring the HP/MP/def/resists made them ok, but if there's something better lemme know)

Not ideal I know, but I'm trying to put something workable together relatively soon, so going with what I could feasibly get in the near future.

[chapstick]

I have a question for RDM tanking JoL. Ive never really tanked on rdm but was planning on tanking next JoL just for hell of it. Should i bother with subbing nin when he spams so many aga's? I was thinking rdm/pld for auto-refresh and using flash/sentinel etc for hate.

You can /PLD.

[Callisto]

Yah, don't forget you can convert also; just have to time it correctly so you don't get yourself killed

That shouldn't be an issue so long as we aren't fighting a giant Crab lol, I only seem to Convert bomb to Bubble Shower and nothing else.

[Seditedi]

Swift Belt shouldn't be a huge issue to get, I despise capped stuff but if it's that important I'll get it. For the rest of it I'm trying to find a line between putting together a tanking set that isn't gimped to fuck and actually being able to start tanking within the next month, since gil is an issue up to a certain point. I was doing well farming Sky gems for awhile, but now there are 90 people in Sky every goddamn night. :/

As of now I was looking at something along the lines of this for my normal tanking setup:

Macuahuitl +1 x2(or Terra Staff if I could get enough emnity otherwise I would think)
Lamia Kaman
Warlock's Chapeau +1
Harmonia's Torque
Hollow Earring(I could find something different, this is just my base l.earring b/c of my normal macro setup)
Loq. Earring
Duelist's Tabard
Warlock's Gloves +1
Balhran's Ring(this is just my standard left ring, I'm not sure what would be better to use in this slot for tanking)
Mermaid's Ring(my normal right ring is Tamas, obviously that won't work out for tanking)
Resentment Cape(if the gd NM ever pops on Ramuh...)
Warwolf Belt(swapping Swift for Utsu/SS)
Crimson Cuisses(not sure if there would be something better, was figuring these for the high def/resists)
Crimson Greaves(same deal as the Cuisses, figuring the HP/MP/def/resists made them ok, but if there's something better lemme know)

Not ideal I know, but I'm trying to put something workable together relatively soon, so going with what I could feasibly get in the near future.

Some swaps I'd make
Balhran's Ring->Bomb Queen Ring or Bloodbead Ring
Hollow Earring->Eris' Earring
Warlock's Gloves +1->Dusk Gloves
Crimson Greaves->Dusk Ledelsens

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Now playing: Porcupine Tree - Deadwing

[chapstick]

Balrahn's ring --> BQ/Bloodbead ring. Since you said sattva is not an option.

Crimson legs --> Probably best you can use unless you have Nashira for some haste. Don't use them on things that can intimidate crimson gear.

Hollow earring --> Eris' Earring, NQ is cheap, or Ethereal if you wanted to change your pick.

Wlk. +1 gloves --> Dusk

Edit: i've been beaten

[Seditedi]

lol, me and Chapstick said basically the same thing.
I was gonna mention Nashira, but I stuck to buyable or not too hard to get rare/ex items.

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Now playing: Red Hot Chili Peppers - Desecration Smile

[Callisto]

Thanks guys, I guess I will be stuck farming for awhile to get ahold of some Dusk gloves then, I haven't gotten the AF+1 gloves yet so I can just save my cloth for the body, they just looked attractive for the Parrying boost.

As far as Nashira, part of the reason I'm doing this is so that we can finally fight Ultima lol, for the most part I'd only be attempting to tank Ultima/Omega and normal Sky gods/trigger NMs.

We're a rather small LS at the moment, generally we have available 1-2 BLMs, a handful of DDs, 3 RDMs(counting myself), 1 PLD, 1 BRD, and 1-2 WHMs. Part of our problem is that the jobs we need are mostly held by the same players, i.e. our 2 best-equipped BRDs are myself and our main WHM(who is also one of our main NINs), our main BLM is also our 2nd NIN, things of that nature.

In terms of party setup, it's really unlikely that we'd have a 2nd BRD for the tank party unfortunately, normally our tank party is something along the lines of RDM WHM WHM BRD PLD NIN, where I'd be swapping in for the NIN and another RDM could jump in the main RDM spot. So we generally have just one each Ballad/March...but I have to wonder, does it really take more than Haste/March #2/Full FC/Swift to cap out Utsu timers? I didn't think it was that difficult.

[Tulun]

You generally need both marches to cap haste. 15% Haste spell + 11% 2nd level March song. So they'd have to have 24% equipment haste to make up for it, or 15% with 2 marches (easy to do, and allows you to fill other slots with good stuff like enmity, -damage, etc...).

As long as you spam spells like a nin/drk, you shouldn't need ballad that badly. PLD might need it more, though.