Zerg Discussion and Strategy

[Syntex]

So I really want the infested Kerrigan picture for my portrait and you need to win 1000 1v1 quick matches as Zerg to get it so I started playing my zerg vs computers to get a feel for it and its slow progress.

The problem I am having is that I try to saturate both bases before I start making a big army, and that usually puts me behind enough to get rushed.

Now I open when Idra's build of 13 pool 14 hatch with extractor trick but I'm not sure where to go from there. I drop an extractor while pool is building but I'm torn between the right amount of units or to get more drones and push economy.

Also I am having a hard time when I get 2 bases up and running to spend my money. Any tips out there to keep my money low without making 2+ hatcheries at my main?

[Thulius]

When you need to stop pumping drones and start building up an army really depends on what your opponent is doing. If you go for a fast expansion you need to be scouting, at least enough to know what your opponent has available early and when they're moving out. Generally in the early game I try to have just enough units to hold off any aggression while saturating as much as possible.

I'm honestly no good against terran, but against protoss I find it's almost always worthwhile to get a couple spine crawlers out early to hold off the inevitable zealot pressure, and you can even throw down an evo chamber or two up front to make them harder to attack/surround. It gives you a little less map presence, but it leaves a lot more larva to use on extra drones compared to trying to defend entirely with lings/roaches.

Personally I don't think extra hatches are something you should be trying to avoid, but maybe that's just my own lack of skill. Whenever I find myself with excess minerals and no larvae to spend them on I just throw down an extra hatch. Generally that doesn't happen in the early/mid game unless I do something stupid like hit supply cap without an overlord in production or forget to spawn larva, but I'm no pro and that kind of thing happens more often than I'd like.

When it comes down to it zerg just isn't good at setting the pace of a match. Beyond the first 18 supply or so your goal should be to keep an eye on your opponent's build and react accordingly. There are very few buildings that you're absolutely going to want to have in every game, but flexibility is zerg's strong point and it's important to take advantage of that if you're not 100% sure what your opponent is going for.

[Misuicide]

Start playing zerg against anyone and everyone on your friend list. Try for the higher ranked players too, as they are more prone to early harass/end game pushes. Thats your best way of getting used to fast expand, or single base play.
I'm more comfortable with single base play till i get lair. If i expand right away in 1v1 i usually lose ;/ so zerg is definatly a challange. Good luck with it!

[Gryffes]

The key is really this: The expansion isn't really so much for extra minerals/gas early on - it's for production of units. You need to saturate your main and maybe transfer for some extra efficiency - but going over 25-30 drone count early basically gets you killed everytime toss/terran 1 base a-moves you.

If I get the opportunity I like to get speedlings with first 100 gas and keep them at my opponents front and dart 1 in/out - it lets you stay aware of what's up and the extra reaction time you get when they finally do move out let's you have a better chance at producing enough units to win the battle.
The problem here is that good terrans will put ~4 units at the front to hold the wall - and keep their other buildings/units far enough back that you can't see what direction they are going in. When you're at the phase where you have excess minerals and can't get enough larva to spend them all - sac an overlord into their base to see what's up. It's so important that you try and do this.

Once you win that first battle you can drone up/rexpo as you like and take your third and from there it's usually a matter of control and not letting them take a third ( or even their natural sometimes ).

ZvT is so ridiculous right now though. We are free to scout, can't wall against harass, can't pressure them until they move to a third, and have problems scouting them.

Terran can open reaper, hellion, marines, marauder, and be 100% safe from zerg, then they can either get siege tech, expand and be 100% safe, or they can mass up and a-move you.

If you decided to drone too hard and they went for the a-move option it's gg and you die. You really have to find out which way they are going - or always build a force in case they do mass.

[Sonomaa]

I hate zerg and want to work on my terran base defense and early speed so Ill 1v1 you for giggles and get rapefaced for great justice.

[lilfoo]

I highly suggest banelings in ZvT. when i play zerg after they wall off i get banelings to break the wall. If the banelings break the wall i know that they are going factory/SP and know to just keep pressure to win from there (stopping them before they get too much) and if the banelings die b4 they get to the wall i am probably seeing a lot of M&M soon so i baneling my zerglings and burrow them around the map at natural chokes that M&M would pass though.

Also remember lings are cheap. throwing them to die against a wall for info on how they are killed is valuable. esp when you are up in econ as far as bases go.

[Syntex]

I hate zerg and want to work on my terran base defense and early speed so Ill 1v1 you for giggles and get rapefaced for great justice.

I accept

Although I would probably get owned

[tornfleshofsoul]

I'm totally up for testing your Zerg skills against all races. I usually Random my race and would love some advice of yours on how to be better Terran/Toss. I'm half decent, not an awesome player so it's a good way to start for you. Add me up to your Flist if you're up for it.

[Ferien]

Honestly, I don't like IdrA's build (which is actually 14 pool 15 hatch, not 13/14 like you said). It just feels like it's extremely weak in the early game and very prone to early attacks. I generally use either an Overpool or a 9over 14pool fast muta build, which has been very effective for me against Terran.

It is, though, easy to make too many drones early on as Zerg, and it's something you don't really learn to watch for until you've been playing Z for a while. The key is to make sure you have enough at your base to defend whatever you think is coming before you start hardcore pumping drones, or you will open yourself wide for attack.

I only play Zerg, so if you want to see some of my openings for reference or want to do some 1v1s (ZvZ is my weakest matchup) hit me up.

[GRT]

the way to pull that off is just amazing micro, starting right with annoying the other guy with the scouting drone

so until i've trained my control to be top notch like that, i wouldn't take the risk either

[GRT]

anyone got a good zerg counter against hellions/thors push? mass infesters?

[ringthree]

anyone got a good zerg counter against hellions/thors push? mass infesters?

I am not that great at SC2, but what about Roach/Muta? I don't know how Thor's do against armored/air though.

[synistar]

Best mix sounds like Roach/Muta with an infestor or 2 with banelings to boot. Banelings there to thin down the helions (35 damage to light armor, which helions are) Sure thors rape mutas but there will be too much crap to really focus fire any air down. Micro hit and run with the mutas.

Brood Lords are a bit far down the tree to get many out before this kind of push, but they would do great vs this kind of army.

[GRT]

roach sux vs thor cuz of the bonus damage to armored, they usually defend until they have 4-5 thors before pushing out so muta get raped too, and zergling and hydra get raped by blue flame hellions

only thing i can think of is to try to fungal growth kite the hellions and then mind control the thors, or flank them with zerlings... but my micro kinda sux lol

[ringthree]

roach sux vs thor cuz of the bonus damage to armored, they usually defend until they have 4-5 thors before pushing out so muta get raped too, and zergling and hydra get raped by blue flame hellions

only thing i can think of is to try to fungal growth kite the hellions and then mind control the thors, or flank them with zerlings... but my micro kinda sux lol

I thought Thor's damage verse air was really low, but I could be wrong.

[Misuicide]

I thought Thor's damage verse air was really low, but I could be wrong.

Thors damage vs light air rapes, cause it also has splash damage. It does no damage to armored air. BC/Carrier/BLs/banchee too, i think.

[Bweigelt]

roach sux vs thor cuz of the bonus damage to armored, they usually defend until they have 4-5 thors before pushing out so muta get raped too, and zergling and hydra get raped by blue flame hellions

only thing i can think of is to try to fungal growth kite the hellions and then mind control the thors, or flank them with zerlings... but my micro kinda sux lol

Thor has no bonus damage. Roaches are actually really good against Thor's. If he's going Marauder Thor Zerglings are better, if it's Hellion Thor Roaches are he way to go. If he tries to go all three he'll have less Thors and Muta is probably best, just keep them separated and focus down the Thors.

[GRT]

oh you are right, somehow always thought thor had bonus to armor

[Syntex]

Thor's damage to air is now but its 12 to light, that and its splash combined with shooting FOUR times so thats 48 damage for 1 round of attacks.

Terran going blue flame hellions+Thors is a bitch to stop by zerg.

[altwight]

My suggestion is spinecrawlers. By the time you get your expansion up and 2-3 drones out you should have 3 spinecrawlers at both with lings (upgraded speed) to move between expansions.

10 lings + 3 spinecrawlers will rape any force at that time in the game.

If they do attack I suggest running your lings to harass their mineral line after that while continuing to tech and build up units.

In my experience as 14hatch I can't say I remember losing to anyone after going ling mutas and putting up those 3 spinecrawlers.