MDB + -Magic% Cap Question

[Meian]

I am told -% Magic damage cap is 50%

That being the case, does MDB in the same cap or is it seperate? Was curious to know if I needed Merman rings during Citadel Buster if using Saline Coat for the 50 MDB (and wearing other -% like earring/lieutenant belt)

[VZX]

Magic Defense Bonus and Magic Damage Taken are 2 separate terms.
Magic Damage Taken lower bound is capped at -128/256.
MDB has no known cap AFAIK

[Meian]

Magic Defense Bonus and Magic Damage Taken are 2 separate terms.
Magic Damage Taken lower bound is capped at -128/256.
MDB has no known cap AFAIK

In "theory" then, does that mean if you could get a little over 50 MDB and -50% magic damage, you could take 0 from magic damage?

[Therin]

I doubt they're calculated at the same time. Plus, MDB isn't a straight 1:1% ratio.

[Meian]

I doubt they're calculated at the same time. Plus, MDB isn't a straight 1:1% ratio.

According to Wiki its just a little below 1% hence why I said a little over 50 MDB

[Tan]

In "theory" then, does that mean if you could get a little over 50 MDB and -50% magic damage, you could take 0 from magic damage?

Dug this from an old thread:


Damage Received ~= (Real Damage) * (Magic Attack Bonus) / (Magic Defense Bonus) * (1 - Magic Damage Taken) * (Resist Rate)

So before you take 0 magic damage you would need to make the limit Matt/MDB approach 0. Which in theory is possible, but not practical since you would need a substantially large amount of MDB which there aren't enough slots for.

[Meian]

Dug this from an old thread:


Damage Received ~= (Real Damage) * (Magic Attack Bonus) / (Magic Defense Bonus) * (1 - Magic Damage Taken) * (Resist Rate)

So before you take 0 magic damage you would need to make the limit Matt/MDB approach 0. Which in theory is possible, but not practical since you would need a substantially large amount of MDB which there aren't enough slots for.

Saline Coat +50 MDB at the start decreasing over time

[Suiram]

The way MDB works, even if you could get MDB+200 it'd only reduce damage taken to 1/3 its previous damage. Add another 200 MDB and it's down to 20% of the original damage. MDB isn't the kind of thing that will ever (even in theory) allow you to take 0 damage from all magic. That said, Saline Coat is still a nice spell in certain situations.

[Meian]

The way MDB works, even if you could get MDB+200 it'd only reduce damage taken to 1/3 its previous damage. Add another 200 MDB and it's down to 20% of the original damage. MDB isn't the kind of thing that will ever (even in theory) allow you to take 0 damage from all magic. That said, Saline Coat is still a nice spell in certain situations.

Even with the -50% cap along with a little over 50 MDB? How much would that negate around?

[Tan]

Saline Coat +50 MDB at the start decreasing over time

So +50 MDB would bump your MDB to 1.5 even if the monster had no magic attack bonus thus giving a number of 1 (not likely but lets say for the sake of numbers), 1/1.5 = .667 or 33.3% reduction in damage. Its a big chunk but not enough to negate damage. But w/ -50% Magic Damage + Saline Coat you should be able to survive a Citadel buster rather easily if you have full HP.

[Suiram]

Even with the -50% cap along with a little over 50 MDB? How much would that negate around?

If you have capped damage taken and MDB+50, you'll take 1/3 of the damage you'd take with none of that gear or buffs. The mob's MAB doesn't change this fact (@Tan).

[Freysi]

The thing that always confused me was the wording on Shell on wiki pages. Shell gives us MDB, but does it also give us Magic Damage Reduction? On wiki it says capped Shell V will give 70/256. Is this correct or is it a mistaken calculation? Seems to me that Shell should only give MDB.

[Suiram]

Shell doesn't give any MDB, it only gives the magic damage reduction you see.

[Tan]

If you have capped damage taken and MDB+50, you'll take 1/3 of the damage you'd take with none of that gear or buffs. The mob's MAB doesn't change this fact (@Tan).

How so? All the forumlas I've seen involve the mobs MAB as I showed in that equation above.

[Suiram]

Yes, it is calculated that way, and that's important to answer the question "what is the exact damage, after taking into account intermediate flooring?" But for all intents and purposes, with questions like this it's commutative. So if a mob with no MAB casts a spell or uses a TP move that has 1000 base damage, so you take 1000 damage without any gear or buffs and you add 50 MDB and 50% magic damage taken, you take 333 damage. If a mob has +100 MAB (2.00 value) and a 500 base damage TP move, you again take 1000 damage with no gear/buffs and 333 with the above buffs. So the manner in which it arrived at the pre-gear/buff damage with MAB is irrelevant when asking how much shell/MDB will reduce.

[Tan]

Yes, it is calculated that way, and that's important to answer the question "what is the exact damage, after taking into account intermediate flooring?" But for all intents and purposes, for questions like this it's commutative. So if a mob with no MAB casts a spell or uses a TP move that has 1000 base damage, so you take 1000 damage without any gear or buffs and you add 50 MDB and 50% magic damage taken, you take 333 damage. If a mob has +100 MAB (2.00 value) and a 500 base damage TP move, you again take 1000 damage with no gear/buffs and 333 with the above buffs. So the manner in which it arrived your pre-gear/buff damage with MAB is irrelevant when asking how much shell/MDB will reduce.

On your first example. How are you arriving at 333 damage without knowing MAB of the monster? I understand that it would be reduced to 500 damage and then multiplied by the MAB/MDB ratio which would be Mobs MAB/1.5. I guess what I'm really wondering is how can we Floor the value of MAB, it seems like it would simplify the damage calculation too much. (I like to know the gritty details so forgive my ignorance, I'm not a Stats guy but can handle advanced math)

[Freysi]

Shell doesn't give any MDB, it only gives the magic damage reduction you see.

Hmm, then why does the text for Shell say "Enhances target's magic defense." ?

[Tan]

Hmm, then why does the text for Shell say "Enhances target's magic defense." ?

Its probably the result of a defunct translation but infact Shell is Magic Damage Reduction. Not Magic Defense Bonus.

[Suiram]

On your first example. How are you arriving at 333 damage without knowing MAB of the monster? I understand that it would be reduced to 500 damage and then multiplied by the MAB/MDB ratio which would be Mobs MAB/1.5. Where are you flooring or assuming a value of MAB? (I like to know the gritty details so forgive my ignorance, I'm not a Stats guy but can handle advanced math) And I'm still not seeing how MAB is arbitrary.

I was just citing an example of how a mob might get to 1000 damage pre-buffs. For instance Ultima (according to Studio Gobli anyway) has 4.00 MAB (MAB+300), and CB has 522 base damage, so with no gear or buffs you'll take 2088 damage. Bahamut, on the other hand (again according to Studio Gobli) has only 1.12 MAB (MAB+12) and Terraflare base damage is around 1880~1950 (it depends on INT so can't give an exact value). In both cases you're taking around 2000 damage unbuffed, and in both cases capped magic damage taken and +50 MDB will reduce it to about 1/3 of the unbuffed damage. It's just how it got there that's different, but it's unimportant when picking out your gear or buffs.

However, if you wanted to predict the exact damage you would take, assuming you knew the formula for the spell or tp move, and the stats of the mob in question (including its MAB), then you would need to know that you are calculating the MAB and MDB together in the same step.

[Starr]

Shell doesn't give any MDB, it only gives the magic damage reduction you see.

Don't more merits into Shellra 5 give +MDB?